British War Criminal - What A B*****d

British war criminal given year in jail
By D’Arcy Doran, Associated Press Writer | April 30, 2007

LONDON --Britain’s first convicted war criminal was sentenced to a year in prison and dismissed from the army Monday in connection with the death of an Iraqi hotel worker.

Article Tools
Printer friendly
E-mail to a friend
World RSS feed
Available RSS feeds
Most e-mailed
Share on Digg
Share on Facebook
Save this article
powered by Del.icio.us
More:
Globe World stories |
Latest world news |
Globe front page |
Boston.com
Sign up for: Globe Headlines e-mail | Breaking News Alerts Corp. Donald Payne, who pleaded guilty to inhumanely treating Iraqi civilians in southern Basra in 2003, was sentenced by a military court in Bulford Camp in southwest England. He had been cleared earlier of manslaughter charges and perverting justice.

In September, Payne became the first British soldier to plead guilty to a war crime under international law. He was on trial with six other soldiers, who all were cleared due to a lack of evidence.

The judge, Stuart McKinnon, said the violent treatment of prisoners was standard practice in Basra for the soldier’s Queen’s Lancashire Regiment – which showed “a serious failing in the chain of command all the way up to brigade and beyond.”

The victim, Baha Mousa, was among nine Iraqi detainees taken into custody as alleged insurgents. The court heard they were held in stress positions and deprived of sleep for about two days in extreme heat at a British army barracks in September 2003.

Mousa, a 26-year-old hotel receptionist, died after he was restrained by soldiers following an attempt to escape. A pathologist told the court Mousa had died from asphyxia, caused by a stress position soldiers forced him to maintain. The eight other detainees were released without charge.

Payne led a sadistic joke called “the choir.” He kicked or punched a group of detainees, trying to make their shrieks of pain sound like a song, the court heard. He encouraged other soldiers to join in.

He broke two of Mousa’s ribs by restraining him and kicked him in the groin. Payne also kicked an elderly prisoner, nicknamed “granddad,” in the kidneys, the court heard.

Although Payne admitted his role, he insisted he was not solely responsible for the abuse.

His lawyer, Tim Owen, said Payne was a “sacrificial lamb” and the only one punished for abuse meted out by many.

The court heard Payne had been ordered to “condition” the Iraqis despite this being banned by international law. “Conditioning” involves hooding, sleep deprivation and forcing prisoners to hold stress positions to “soften them up” before interrogation.

The army’s chief of staff Gen. Richard Dannatt said the case raised “uncomfortable facts” and said the army was confronting the problem.

He said British military personnel have a duty to obey the law.

“It now appears that this duty was forgotten or overlooked in this case,” Dannatt said.

and your point?

I posted this because I am British and it deeply saddened me that this could happen in the British Army of today. In an Army of a few millian conscripts such as in WW2 the occasional incident like this is bound to happen but in a professional only Army of 100,000?

Where were the Officers? Where was the Command and Control? What lessosn were learnt from Abu Graib prison and what the Americans did there? Stories like this just contribute to the terrorists cause, we shouldn’t just pass them off as “so what”.

arhob1, have you ever served in the British armed forces ?

What has his service or non service to do with his post?

IMO if he was/had serving/served I doubt he’d have used that headline.

What would you have used as a headline?

Bit of a naughty boy? The guy was convicted by a UK court. The things he has been found guilty of are reprehensible.

Or is our military exempt from being Bastards?

Oh I see you’re a civvie as well, enough said.

Thanks arhob

Britain’s first convicted war criminal was sentenced to a year in prison and dismissed from the army Monday in connection with the death of an Iraqi hotel worker.

Year for … murder?
It looks like justificstion;)
There is no any doubt this man is only “scapegoat”. This is tipucal situation in a such war - you need to judge somebody for the crimes in show-trial , to prove for other world that you are “objective” toward its own criminals.
I know some of the simular stories in Checnij when the some of russian soldierds were convicted ( and not for a ONE year) for the violence above the civilians.

No Im a serving Crab, which of course will make it much worse in your eyes. 24 years now, boy and older boy.

I dont see your gripe here though mate. Are civvies not to comment on Military events? Dont civvies have a say? Dont Civvies pay you wages?

Hmm, does being in the military give us the right to ignore silly civies and their silly laws?

Just wondering and I would love to hear your answers. Democracy is such a good thing dont you think?

Hello Gun Plumber. I don’t like to give too much personal history out on the web but as my service or non service seems to be important to you I can advise that I have served in commissioned and non-commissioned roles. I don’t normally give this info out - if you want to know more then PM me.

The point I am trying to make here is that whilst the forces allow things like this to happen - no matter how much of a beating we might personally think that Al Qaeda members deserve - it will provide fuel for such terrorist groups to continue recruitment and does nothimng to win hearts and minds.

How many additional British soldiers will die as a result of the negative publicity this case will generate?

How many British soldiers will leave the forces due to the perception that a squaddy gets sent to prision whilst his officers get off free?

How often did this soldier’s officers monitor prisoners conditions and talk to the prisoners about their treatment?

Is our strategy in Iraq to win hearts and minds and eventually win the war or to kick the s**t out of any one we suspect of being a terrorist and end up being kicked out of Iraq in a humiliating withdrawal such as that the US faced in Saigon in the 70’s?

All that is true.

But how about just condemning Payne’s actions because they were wrong?

Which is how this thread started out, as far as I understood it.

Soldiers who refrain from doing things which any idiot can see are wrong won’t do things that cause the problems outlined in the quote above.

I’d rather have an army of arhob1’s and Fireflies than the approving attitudes implicit in Gun Plumber’s posts.

It’s what the good guys are supposed to be fighting for, and what should distinguish us from the scum who think that kidnapping people and beheading bound prisoners is a courageous and laudable act.

Anyone who opposes such acts must also morally or logically oppose what Payne did to his prisoners.

It matters not whether you have served before or currently, all the to be fair crab air isn’t really service is it… to be fair :D.

In this instance the man responsible at least had the minerals to admit guilt, something others obviously didn’t do. The sentance is a bit on the short side, however, he will carry it out in a military jail rather than a civie one and also (IIRC) loses pension rights and other perks of the job.

Whilst I CAN understand what is like to be in such situations (been there, done that) the stress of the moment can not be used to justify this mans actions.

I have pm’d you some days ago…still waiting for an answer.