Supporting the communist ideal myself I say it was a society that needed new rules for its equal partner and more government hospitality.
Religeon should of been something the communist conspiracy agreed on. To let the average Russian choose on his owne religeon.
There are many other things i could say about communism that would improve it, remaking the soviet union a better place.
By Commando. jordovski :idea: :!:
Four legs good, two legs bad.
It’s kinda good but kinda bad. Like good because everyone gets what everyone else gets. But bad, because like someone in a job deserving more money, like a Brain Sergeon, gets paid what, say a garbage man gets paid. or something to that effect. Theyres always 2 sides of the story here.
Communism will never work! (in my opinion) like tiger said, treating everyone equal is not always fair.
Communism is bad and definitely will never work (even in China’s case).
I live in Communism for enough years in order to understand what is about.
Edited: Anyway we should move this topic in General discussions
communism is shat. it never worked, it will never work and is a waste of time. i could argue against it all day if u really want me to.
As could I - not only does it deny human nature, but it denies animal nature. It’s also based on a flawed, revisionist view of history, unqualified statements such as “the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat”, a class-based theory which just ignores whole large groupings cos they don’t fit, and an extremely flawed economic theory which has never worked in practice.
In practice, it has enslaved and killed millions of people.
Rummel:
Rummel’s site is very interesting: http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/wsj.art.htm
Someone once said to me: “Of course Communism works - you just need capitalists to pay for it and fascists to enforce it”. :lol:
long live for the capitalism :lol:
I’m more for democracy, myself. But we are all entitled to our own beliefs.
i like democracy,but i don´t left political democracy.
my favourite are democracy with right political.
but i saw that in usa,the left political worked great! (see Democrats and Roosevelt 
) ,maybe because hasn´t so much corrupt politicals as argentina :lol:
“Of course Communism works - you just need capitalists to pay for it and fascists to enforce it”
So true :lol:
Whatever the government you may have, you will always find corrupt politicians! :!: :evil:
In European terms, the Democrats are not left-wing - they’re centre-right, but then the centre-of-gravity is different. You have not seen the proto-communists, trots, pinkoes and other assorted lefties we have to tolerate over here!
really?,tell me that,in my country there are lots of people who wants stupid politics like anarquism!!!.
there are lots of politic ideas,but,the important is that the baddest aren`t voted :twisted:
sadly though i see a rising trend in communism…
i think lots of ppl forget over time the “fun” of communism. if communism comes to the country i live in, im getting the hell out of there asap
hey Caliber, are you a national socialist? Mind giving some reasons for your attack on Communism?
I do agree that Communism can not work now, in its currents form and ours, but that doen’t mean that it will never work. I have heard alot about Human nature, but no one ever praises it. They just say, “Communism can never work because it defys Human nature”, but they never say, “Isn’t Human nature wonderful? We should embrace it!” so why even have it? Why shouldn’t we breed it out of our race? What good has it done us reccently? In the past, it helped us survive, but those conditions no longer exist! As far as I can see, it only hinders us. It is holding us back by making us think and act as though we are still primitive neanderthals. Rise from the depths of your unjust hate and open you eyes!
And yes, simply eliminating human nature will not fix this problem, Communism need major adjustments before it can be fully aplicable to humans. Your hate for this government is unjust. Simply because your leaders fear its potential doesn’t mean that it should be branded as evil, and just because it has a few kinks doen’t mean that the whole idea is flawed. Think of Communism now as version 1.0. Once it is debugged, it will be very close to being perfect.
I know that some of you are instilled with so much blind capitalistic hate that you won’t even give my ideas a second though, let alone finish reading my post, but no personal attacks, lets try to be a little more mature than that.
I’m afraid that it’s had a failure rate of 100% so far, and the blood of around 95,000,000 people on its hands.
Any system which unlinks direct rewards from work input is doomed to failure - people will do no more work than necessary to keep the higher ups off their backs (the Russians called this Tukhta). This is why ALL communist economies stagnate. To quote Oleg Gordievsky (a KGB agent who escaped the Soviet Union): “Besides, to everybody who studied Marx well (as I did, as a student in the Soviet Union), it is crystal clear that he was a very poor economist and an amateur philosopher. Unfortunately his main message - propaganda for political violence and the establishment of a dictatorship - led to immense loss of human life in the 20th century.”
You’ve had more than just Mk.1 - you’ve had a whole raft of communist countries with more or less levels of craziness, but all of them have certain things in common - severe censorship, human rights abuses, and political prisons / camps. I really despise it when people say “let’s just give it one more go - none of those implementations were really communism” - 100% failure rate so far is not good odds on it working again, especially as it’s based on a flawed revisionist interpretation of history & heavily faulty economics!
If you want a system which embraces human nature, classical liberalism (libertarianism) assumes that people are in general good & that an over-arching apparatus of state control is not necessary & thus pretty much leaves people be until they start to harm others.
What also galls me is that it’s acceptable to be an apologist for Communism, but yet not for Naziïsm, even though the former killed far more people.
And btw, I’ve read bits of several books written by Lenin & Bukharin - academically they’re worthless, full of unsubstantiated assertions and bare-faced lies (they were designed to be read to illiterate peasants & workers who could not verify anything). A great one from Lenin is “The biggest threat to our revolution is… the shopkeepers” from a time when the Red Army was pillaging the countryside, thus creating shortages & pushing up prices. Instead of telling the truth, he blames shopkeepers.
If you wish to support Communism, I suggest that you read The Gulag Archipelago from cover-to-cover - all 3 volumes.
This is also worth a read:
In an ideal utopian world where everyone works for each other and all take the same cut, no matter their skill, it may just work. Humans by nature are animal and as such will always look out for them and theirs, well the vast majority anyway. We dont live in that ideal world and though I hate some aspects of Capitalism and the type of society it breeds, as many have siad, its the best system we have come up with yet. Yes it may not be fair for all, but for most it works out.
To Man of Stoat: Of course it has failed, human nature will not let it do otherwise, and it was definentaly flawed. I suppose that I did make my argument about human nature confusing, what I tryed to say was that I do not like human nature, and that I wanted to get rid of it all toghether. What good has it done us in reccent years? Why do you feel that it is ok to apologize for Nazism? Their beleif is that they are better and so everyone else should die! The goal of Communism is to Unite everyone, as we are all equals. We have yet to see true Communism, so this has not been implemented yet.
To Firefly: The psudo-Communist nations are far from a Utopia, I agree. And as you said,
Humans by nature are animal and as such will always look out for them and theirs, well the vast majority anyway.
so why not get rid of this human/animal nature? If the best governemt we can come up with is Capitalism while we act according to human/animal nature, than it should be our #1 enemy. Blame the cause not the effect (as in, don’t blame the Communists, blame human anture! [God that was cheesy]).
Before any of you say it, I know, I need to not hate Capitalism because it is the effect, not the cause. Curse myself…
Getting rid of human nature and animal nature is what communists tried to do, and failed. They thought that their ideals and propaganda could overcome it. What makes you think it would work given another attempt?!? That was the whole crux of the matter! What do you propose to do to get rid of the fundamental nature of humans - genetically engineer us? Reduce us to the state of sterile workers in insect colonies? Engineer us to tolerate unimaginable suffering for some supposed “greater good”? Somehow engineer us to work hard for no tangible return whilst others slack off?
It is based on a flawed precept, and as such can NEVER work at anything above a very small village level (hell, even kibbutz workers practice Tukhta!). As soon as the “greater good” becomes invisible, it effectively does not exist for the individual. I will not go hungry so that Mining Kolkhoz 572 in the arrse-end of nowhere that I’ve never been can increase its manipulated production figures by 10%. And unless you’re proposing to genetically engineer people, then that will never change. And even if you are, think of the ethical issues!
And I don’t feel its OK to apologise for naziïsm (I never said that) - I simply feel that it is even less OK to apologise for communism.
