I find in net some interesting photo of modern worshippers of Adolf Hitler.
This is not similar to the simple “masquerade”. this is the group of young americans, which united to the Nazi idea.
do someone wants to call and to ask these guys?
This looks like mockery above hundreds of thousand American soldiers of those was killed in the war against the fascism.
May i ask our american friends what’s this.
Hi Chevan,
Just very quick search in Googles yielded:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/08/14/MNGUSE7N2D1.DTL
http://www.interethnic.org/EngNews/120506_5.html
http://www.greatestjournal.com/users/avrom/2645.html
http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901040809-674718,00.html
http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/pages/DefendRussianAntiFascists.php
http://english.pravda.ru/accidents/21/96/383/13166_murder.html
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1304096,00.html
http://www.rickross.com/reference/skinheads/skinheads49.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0123/p07s02-woeu.html
So dear Chevan, are you kidding? Mate, this problem is common worldwide.
What personally worry me is that paying any attention to those extreme groups society is promoting them, vindicating them and actually making them visible and important.
Cheers,
Lancer44
Hi, guys, sorry, but in the Patagonia I have not so much time.
I’m reading a Tom Clancy’s book, “Op-center III” and explaind with
some detail some groups of neo-nazism in America. And in Europe too.
I know it is ficction, but it have a lot elements of the reality.
That Pics remember me the motion picture “The Blues Brothers”.
Hi Lancer.
Nice to meet you are here 
Your links about skinheads. They are in any country.
Yes, i aggree with you skinheads - this is common problem.
But do not confuse young bandit - skinheads with completely adult 30-60 y. old people which interestingly spend time dressing on the Nazi form and with the flags. Skinheads do not arrange public processions along the municipal streets.
I wrote about National Socialists party
They has its own official site :http://www.nsm88.com/index2.html
In Russia there is same party also : RNU - Russian National Unity.
Also are extremely left party: the National- Bolsheviks
Both party are practically illegal today.
Its leaders have some problems with law.
This extremists parties appeared after perestroika. Russian nationalists (Left and right) took an example from their western comrades.
What personally worry me is that paying any attention to those extreme groups society is promoting them, vindicating them and actually making them visible and important
Lancer , do you want to say better not to note them at all ?
On your view is this normal situation?
Better nothing to do when people in the Nazi uniform walk along the streets?
Well Chevan, I’ll try to answer as best I can. I must say, as Lancer44 pointed out, I do object to this being portrayed as a uniquely “American” problem. Neo-Nazis and Neo-Fascists have been problematic since the end of WWII, by both a continuing underground sympathetic strain centered in German (although the FRG has legislated many anti-Nazi laws in order to insure they remain politically marginalized), Spain, and much of South & Central America, the legacy never really went away totally.
As for the (un)American movement, it actually began in the 1950’s under the revisionist leadership of George Lincoln Rockwell, who was, ironically, a WWII vet!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lincoln_Rockwell
The c*** was murdered by one of his own “Nazi brethren” after an argument over the superiority/inferiority of light skinned Nazis vs. darker skinned Euro Nazis :lol:
However, to cut this short, this led to a second American Nazi-party leader, Frank Collin, that is famed for the attempted ‘march on Skokie,’ a mostly Jewish suburb of Chicago, IL in 1979. Collin was later charged with molesting young boys (sensing a theme here?;)) in 1980.
American Nazis are indeed traitors, not only because they spit on the grave of American War Veterans, but because most reportedly celebrated after the 9/11 tragedy, and seem to be in cahoots with Islamic extremists due to their rancid hate for Jews and mutual, faulty conspiratorial view of the world. Of course, like any country, we’ve had our fascists terrorists such as the Klu Klux Klan and many other offshoots. The greatest danger is actually the fragmentation of the movement into terror cells such as “The Order” as advocated by William Luther Pierce, the author of “The Turner Diaries,” a novel that advocates “race war” and terror, and ultimately influenced Timothy McVeigh to bomb and murder his fellow Americans in Oklahoma.
That’s as far as I want to go with this.
So what’s the difference whether they wear a uniform mimicking WWII SS troopers, or if they wear boots and black leather jackets??? The ideas, the core values of violence and myopic views are the same!
I wrote about National Socialists party
They has its own official site :http://www.nsm88.com/index2.html
In Russia there is same party also : RNU - Russian National Unity.
Also are extremely left party: the National- Bolsheviks
Both party are practically illegal today.
Its leaders have some problems with law.
This extremists parties appeared after perestroika. Russian nationalists (Left and right) took an example from their western comrades.
You fail to mention that Russia has a problem with skin head youth attacking people in Moscow because they’re gay, possibly Jewish, or have dark skin. Is this less of a problem than idiots that put on uniforms on the weekend?
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/04/18/russianskinheads.shtml
Lancer , do you want to say better not to note them at all ?
On your view is this normal situation?
Better nothing to do when people in the Nazi uniform walk along the streets?
It’s an issue of freedom of speech. The US has had fifth columnist Nazis and fascist sympathizers since prior to WWII (“The Bundes League” I think). We rounded them up if necessary. It’s the extreme-rightists that are in underground terror cells that I worry about.
Much less problem. Skins are a bunch of youth, actually most of them into it not because of some racial theories but because of fighting. Some boys are football fans just for sake of fighting another club’s fans (and they’re called skins too). To ‘attacking people because gay’ i suppose you refer to Moscow fiasco gay parade:mrgreen: If you look at photos, there were no skins there, mostly ordinary looking people in military style outfit.
So there is major difference between skins and similar youth groups and actual Nazi movement - skins have zero political capabilities or influences. What i do not understand - how it can be that in US Nazi are legal party?
Exactly.
“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - EB Hall
I just want to add a little bit - ignore them, because any signs that you are interested, amused, enraged, is what they are waiting for!
They do not want you to be symphatetic - they need enemies to grow - again ignore them.
An finally I have one biiiiiiiiiiig grudge towards police forces around the world - if nazis, skinheads and other Hitler’s followers jump up and have a violent gathering, which need police riot squads intervention… usually this intervention is hopeless. Same tactic towards illegal guys, lesbians and same hopeless tactic against neo-nazis.
All around the world except France. This frog-eaters guys know how to use they truncheons right! Full stop!
I despise communist system, I hated it living in Poland, but now I can admire the beating skills of Polish ZOMO and Russian OMON - they knew how to beat, they actions on the streets were like orchestrated concerts.
They knew exactly how to cause maximum pain without any damage.
Why nowadays is different and neo-nazis confronting police in any country are just their own mob “heroes”?
Cheers,
Lancer44
Hi Nick
Thanks for the interesting information.
But i am not sure that Anerican National-Socialists is in cahoots with Islamic extremists.
Yes, they have some mutual particular interests. But if you will see its party program you could find enormous difference.
I see on tv scene from Spain when peoples openly raised hands in the Hitler greeting in sentral square of Madrid.
Cheers
It wasn’t “Hitler greeting” but fascist gesture made by Gen. Franco’s followers.
You shouldn’t generalize that every hand risen in such gesture is determing support of Hitler’s sick ideas.
In Spain the situation is difficult because as you may know Chevan, there was a civil war were two ideolgies were involved. It still has a influence on some part of society.
Actually, I’m referring to news reports from CBS News’ “60Minutes” that they did on the rise of right wing Russian militias, not just skinheads I might add. It looked as if these people were organized paramilitary gangs with access to firearms. And that they were being ignored by the Russian Gov’t, because they tacitly supported their aims. One guy, with the backing of his gang, seemed to do nothing but martial arts and physical training so be could attack foreigners. I assume they had a small time organized crime or drug network to support themselves. Fascism is fascism, whether the group calls itself “Nazi” or “Cossack.”
So there is major difference between skins and similar youth groups and actual Nazi movement - skins have zero political capabilities or influences.
What?
From: PBS.org
Introduction
This year, Russia is celebrating the 60th anniversary of the defeat of Nazi Germany. The former Soviet Union sacrificed 27 million soldiers and citizens fighting European fascism. The losses far outweighed those of any other nation fighting in World War II, which Russians refer to as the Great Patriotic War. Given the country’s extraordinary anti-Nazi history, many Russians find it difficult to understand why neo-Nazism is on the rise in Russia today. An estimated 15,000 to 20,000 skinheads are active in the country, taking direction from a growing number of ultranationalist political parties, some represented in the State Duma, the lower house of Russia’s parliament.
(Really? No state ties?)
On Rough Cut this week, we present Kelly Whalen’s report from St. Petersburg, Russia. “Murder in St. Petersburg” is the story of Nikolai Mikhailovich Girenko, a prominent defender of minority rights, who was gunned down in his home in the summer of 2004. Girenko, an ethnologist and Africa studies scholar, had dedicated the last 10 years of his life to investigating Russian hate groups that vilify Jews, foreigners and migrants from the former Soviet republics. Girenko’s work and expert testimony resulted in the incarceration of dangerous skinhead leaders and other ultranationalist figures – and his death was mourned by human rights defenders around the world. More than a year later, his murder remains unsolved.
As a fellow of the International Reporting Project at The Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, Whalen traveled to Russia for five weeks in spring 2005 to investigate Girenko’s death and the dangerous forces he opposed.
During her visit, a petition to ban all Jewish organizations, signed by several State Duma deputies, was circulating the country. Radical newspapers were continuing their “Russia for Russians” campaigns and railed against the Jewish oligarchs, condemning them as “the scoundrels and thieves” who plundered the country during the period of perestroika after the collapse of the communist system, while ordinary Russians suffered.
Violent attacks against foreign students and immigrants have become a weekly occurrence. During Whalen’s last weekend in St. Petersburg, a city with a rich history of culture and acceptance, Angolan, Bangladeshi and Chinese students were attacked in separate incidents. One student was sent to the hospital with head injuries and knife wounds.
But Whalen also found a growing public resistance to this hate and intolerance. Migrant communities, foreign students, activists and government representatives are beginning to join forces. And some top-level officials are publicly calling for changes in law enforcement to help deal with the problem.
In this report, you will meet neo-Nazi gangs of skinheads as well as far-right party ideologues, some of whom were questioned by police about Girenko’s murder. One ultranationalist tells Whalen, “We consciously stir up this hatred…because it’s like a weapon. Blood for blood. I have always said that.” You will also meet colleagues and supporters of Girenko, people who remember a man who worked courageously and tirelessly against racism and dangerous forms of nationalism.
A group that is essentially terrorist has no influence or political capability? Interesting.
What i do not understand - how it can be that in US Nazi are legal party?
Firstly: I’ve never seen them on a ballot when I’ve voted. I’ve never looked for them, but I believe one cannot vote for them in most of the USA. You can however vote for the American Revolutionary Communist Party or The Socialist Workers Party, I have seen them on the ballot.
Secondly: The American Nazi party has been around for over 50-years, and has only ever been increasingly marginalized as a fringe party. So, obviously, they are no threat to take power anytime soon. Again, the biggest threats were the splinter groups, or “cells,” that were more violent. It’s funny that some here have used pictures of lunatics in Nazi uniforms and have attempted to portray that as some insidious threat in America. In fact, the Federal gov’t has cracked down on rightest violent extremists, especially after the Oklahoma City bombing.
In the US, supposedly or ideally, only violent acts, conspiracies, and other law violations such as illegal firearms/explosives are prosecuted, not speech or retarded uniform wearing.
BTW, I have to find this Russian based skepticism to be quite ironic, since it is your country that is led by a virtual dictator, Vlad “the impaler” Putin, that skirts the rule of law in order to quash dissent and jail political enemies. That is the true threat of fascism, not marginalized people venting their hatred and masking latent insecurity and economic powerlessness.
Perhaps you guys might want to worry about your own gov’t?
The difference is that skinheads are usial young bandit, who use N-S ideology becouse it’s very comfortable for violence. They have too small of mind.
The skinheads are just instrument of the tool of someone’s policy. But why is creator of modern extremist ideology? Partis like National-Socialists.
I am sure that society must fight such partis with.
You fail to mention that Russia has a problem with skin head youth attacking people in Moscow because they’re gay, possibly Jewish, or have dark skin. Is this less of a problem than idiots that put on uniforms on the weekend?
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/04/18/russianskinheads.shtml
Believe me, in New York’s Harlem you will much more problems becouse you white then in Moscow becouse you possibly Jewish, or have dark skin.
Nick, skinheads in Russia is no more then 15 000 at all. Really ,this much less than in Britan or USA but its activity today grow rapidly. This tendency is worry me.
Russian govermant just now realized the danger of this phenomenon and it’s try to do something against extremist RNU and Nationa-Bolsheviks (this always astonished me - how can bolsheviks be the nationalists).
But I think the skin problem - this social problem of the young criminality.
You are correct. I misspoke. In fact, some American Neoconservatives (“authoritarian” Republicans that are in fact not really very conservative) have created a myth that “Islamofascists” or Iraqi Intelligence were invovled in the Oklahoma City bombing, which I find to be a self-serving revisionist conspiracy theory. But they do seem to agree with many of Al-Qaida’s themes.
I think the key mistake that you make however is to assume that neoNazism/racist fascism is a unified movement in America. In fact, they are deeply splintered.
I see on tv scene from Spain when peoples openly raised hands in the Hitler greeting in sentral square of Madrid.
Cheers
Yes, it is the fascist salute. As stated earlier, some mistake it as a symbol of Nazism, which I think is a bit of an overstatement. Franco won the Civil War, so there is some residual political extreme rightist ‘Nationalism’ present.
I agree. But there seems to be a problem with hate-crimes in Russia. And a gov’t that is deeply authoritarian, phrase it or spin it however you want.
Believe me, in New York’s Harlem you will much more problems becouse you white then in Moscow becouse you possibly Jewish, or have dark skin.
Not as true anymore, in fact Harlem is increasingly white in some sections. And the truth is that most people could always walk through even the “most dangerous streets” in America without being molested, during the day anyways. And a lot of middle class white drug users are known to go into the inner cities to get drugs and bring them back to the suburbs.
Nick, skinheads in Russia is no more then 15 000 at all. Really ,this much less than in Britan or USA but its activity today grow rapidly. This tendency is worry me.
Russian govermant just now realized the danger of this phenomenon and it’s try to do something against extremist RNU and Nationa-Bolsheviks (this always astonished me - how can bolsheviks be the nationalists).
But I think the skin problem - this social problem of the young criminality.
Extremism seems to have a lot to do with economics, and the blaming of the right social problems on the wrong people/imagined conspiratorial political entities. This is a problem with all societies, especially those in transformation.
I aggree with you that there is no United Fiscists organisation. They are really deeply splintered. This mostly extremist groups. But this not mean that we must nothing do aginst.
This american Combat18 illegal organization. It is surprising, but in Russia there is teenage organization with the same name. Even in Krasnodar.
I was in shok when firs time see its movie.
This is just free speech being practiced - or do you not have this concept in your part of the world? These guys and gals are no different than Louis Farakahn and the nation of Islam here in the U.S.
Just like in every country we have our share of wackos. I suggest you do a search of Louis Farakahn on google and see the hate these knuckleheads preach. In a free society you will get this type of stuff…no biggie.
And the Freedom of speech has worked, because people can freely oppose fascism, and other extremist ideas, using their own speech. And the authorites can focus their efforts on people that are actually criminals engaged in violent or illegal acts.
The Southern Poverty Law Center is a great example of this.
This problem not so great as the newspapers imagine.
There were some killing of foreign students (from africa) - i know this usual picture for big modern city like Moscow.
The real problem that this is the resault of govermant politic. Whan russians were discriminated in the republics of that been of USSR nobody shouted about this. Today if one killing the foreigh student or woker this is the HOT news all of the world. I understand why you seems this problem appeared just now. This violence appeared in 1991 after USSR was down.
Not as true anymore, in fact Harlem is increasingly white in some sections. And the truth is that most people could always walk through even the “most dangerous streets” in America without being molested, during the day anyways. And a lot of middle class white drug users are known to go into the inner cities to get drugs and bring them back to the suburbs.
I hear about attempt to improve the situation in Harlem. There is even the tourist stage into Harlem today.
But i think you will aggree that black criminality is still the seriouse problem.
Extremism seems to have a lot to do with economics, and the blaming of the right social problems on the wrong people/imagined conspiratorial political entities. This is a problem with all societies, especially those in transformation.
Yes, i think we need to act together to solve this problem.
Hi Kovalsky.
I heared about Spain civil war, and certainly not every hand risen in such gesture is determing support of Hitler’s.
But not in this case
If do you doubt read please the program of American N-S party.
http://www.nsm88.com/25points/25pointsengl.html
…
7.All non-White immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Whites currently residing in America be required to leave the nation forthwith and return to their land of origin: peacefully or by force.
…
I don’t know, what “freedom of speech” do some members mean?
But obviously when some points of N-S party has the call to the forced moving out according to the racial sign this can’t be consider in limits of freedoom speech. This can be consider by court.
Yes, i can to say this is the personal matter of Americans - to decide which party can be legal or illegal. But the problem is the nationalists in other countries take the example on americans.
Cheers.