Okay guys you can now discuss David Irving and his agenda. Also discuss any other historians who you feel have distorted history.
Remember, many historians especially in the immediate post war period were shackled by lack of information. Also there were restrictions on what could be written. A classic example is Galland’s The First And The Last. Much was omitted, but thankfully several authors have filled the gaps.
Thanks Digger.
I think Irving was a very well documented writer , but off course his continue allegations about the Holocaust undermined a lot ( if not completely) his credibility and made difficult to see the difference between lies and the truth.
I particulary like “The rise and fall of the Luftwaffe”
Its not just the holocaust.
In the book on Dresden he knowingly inflated the death toll to over 100,000 using a document he knew was false and tried to claim that Churchill personally ordered the attack on Dresden.
In his book on PQ17 he was successfully sued by the person who he blamed for the losses, and had to withdraw the book from circulation.
The book he wrote on Churchill was ripped apart by other historians because he was so biased against him.
You cannot trust him on anything
As I said… hard to see the difference. He had some points done aniway, like the time when he was the first to claim that the Stern magazine “Hitler diaries” were a complete fake, surpassing some serious historians like Hugh Trevor Roper wich were the person who autenticated that weekly published book.
He did at first claim they were fake, but then he changed his mind and claimed they were real… just as everyone else realised they were fake 
Of course, in his version of events… he fails to mention his change of mind :mrgreen:
Irving also was always moaning about his freedom of speech and censorship of Nazi iconography and his revisionist bullshit in some European countries. But he then sued two Americans in the more favorable British courts (in regards libel laws). He of course lost.
The book on Irving is that he sort of suffered from the historians equivalent of “The Stockholm Syndrome” and became increasingly sympathetic to Hitler and his henchmen, to the point that he knowingly lied and used base semantics to argue indefensible positions…
Very well said.
I also think frustration (feeling he didn’t get enough support/recognition from historians for his research of scattered german records) contributed to his “slide” to far far right and pushed him beyond facts on certain matters.
But, wouldn’t you have to say, that because of getting “too close”, he has been able to get interviews out of former nazis (very reluctant to talk to anyone)? One could say that the “price” for those interviews was the slide to far right.
_
Hi guys.
Thanks for the thread dear Digger
BTW guys D.Irving left the prison. Now he is free and certainly he will write the new 'masterpieces" like “Dresden.Apocalipsys1945”
And who did order the attack to the Dresden?Bomber Harris?
I heared (not from Irving) tht the total quantity of victims in Dresden was over 100 000.
You cannot trust him on anything
But you can trust the Suvorov and ets.?
And who were those former nazis? What interviews do you mean?
He did at first claim they were fake, but then he changed his mind and claimed they were real… just as everyone else realised they were fake
Of course, in his version of events… he fails to mention his change of mind :mrgreen:
Oh…thanks for that, I have not knowledged of that fact.
And who did order the attack to the Dresden?Bomber Harris?
I heared (not from Irving) tht the total quantity of victims in Dresden was over 100 000
.
Actually yes, between the large quantities of Irving lies/ desinformation/etc that is not.
For example the book “Der brand, Deustchland in Bombenkrieg” by Jörg Friedrich gaves a similar figure. So is not a lonely Irving invention.
The question will be…¿ there is a good/usable/reliable book writed by Irving?
I think that “the rise and fall of the Luftwaffe” is one .
Here is one (Albert Speer in 1979):
Oh young Irving 
Look to him
Thanks for photo and information Nick.
So what especial did tell the Albert Speer for the Irving?
May i wath this interview?
So do you agree that the total victims of Dresden slaughter is about 100 000?
Becouse Wilki get the reduced number is 25 000 killed and 35 000 wondered.
For example the book “Der brand, Deustchland in Bombenkrieg” by Jörg Friedrich gaves a similar figure. So is not a lonely Irving invention.
The Irving was the first ( after Hoebbels propoganda ministry) who in his first book about Dresden confirmed the figure is 250 000 killed. This book was pablished it seems in 1960yy.
After this manies authors begin to use it as source. Today the official British version is no more 25 000. But I think it’s strongly reduced figure, becouse Dresden firestorm was the hell( as it confirmed by the eyewitnesses).
The question will be…¿ there is a good/usable/reliable book writed by Irving?
I think that “the rise and fall of the Luftwaffe” is one .
I can’t to confirm it i hadn’t read it yet. But sure not all Irving books is lie.
Well, as you probably know wikipedia being a open source site is not the most reliable.
I think it must be between 80.000 to 100.000
Gentlemen, Irving’s figures for the Dresden raid are wildly inaccurate as proven by frederick Taylor’s excellent book Dresden published in 2004.
In 1993 after the collapse of communism four years earlier the Archives of the Municipal Cemetray were uncovered in the Dresden City Archive. The final estimate tallies roughly with the 25,000 dead figure given by the Soviet backed authorities shortly after the war. It seems from all official sources the final death toll was somewhere between 25,000 and 40,000.
Regards Digger.
Digger,
Why do not you mention here how many Brits were killed during the whole “Blitz” compain in the whole of UK? And then compare it to this one night in the given city… Very nice! Right?
The number of British civilians killed during the Blitz has nothing to do with the misrepresented casualty figures of Dresden by David Irving and others.
That’s why I mentioned nothing about it.
Regards Digger.
Ho-ho-ho! Is that right?
I am sure that many people will find it very relevant to know, that just during the Dresden night were killed almost as many civilian germans as civilian brits during the whole war. And that is according to your numbers.
love and kisses
If you hit someone with a bat, you can’t really complain if he hits you back with a bigger one:roll:
war isn’t nice
love and kisses
:shock:
What a loving guy