Democracy! Vote! best divisions of the Second World War!

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#1

ok, people Put down which division you think was the best in ww2 and why you think so. (accompishments, combat efficiency, etc.)

For me its 1st fallschirmjager(7th fliegar). Besides being trained a ridiciously long time 4-6 years, this division beat the odds.

The Fallschirmjäger participated in many famous battles, including the flawless airborne seizure of Fort Eben-Emael and airdrops in Norway in 1940.

Their most famous airdrop was in the Battle of Crete in 1941, where the entire 7th Air Division division was deployed along with other assets such as the German 22nd Air Landing Division and captured the island facing numerically superior opposition and enemy light tanks.

On September 24th the Division received orders to move to the Leningrad front in Russia. As in past campaigns, the élite 7th Air Divison was again frequently to be used in Company and Battalion-strength units, patching up battle lines whenever the German defenders started to waver against Soviet attacks. This experience led the Paratroopers to name themselves “The Fuehrer’s Firemen”

in north africa, the Ramcke Parachute Brigade was an organization of four battalions of Fallschirmjäger plus supporting units, under the command of Hermann Ramcke during World War II. It was sent to North Africa in 1942 to bolster Axis forces in the Western Desert. It was cut off by the British at the Second Battle of El Alamein and written off as a loss by Rommel, but managed to break out and fight its way to Tunisia without a supply line by salvaging weapons,fuel, vechicles, food, and water from captured british stocks.

in italy, at Monte Cassino, the paras held despite enemy numerical and material supremacy.

“No other troops in the world but German paratroops could have stood up to such an ordeal and then gone on fighting with such ferocity” — Field Marshall Alexander.

#2

Good topic and for once Im not going to try and disclaim anything you say.

The German Paras were indeed formidable. They were perhaps endowed with the most firepower of any infantry during WW2.

Initially they had 12 man squads liberally strewn with automatic weapons and more to the point 2 x MG34.

Later in the war they went to 11 and 10 man squads but armed with more MP44 and 2 x MG 42.

As a defensive unit, especially in the latter years I think they are without parallel.

Truly a formidable force.

#3

actually, firefly, i think “most firepower” title goes to mechanzed panzergrenadiers. Not only do they move around in an armored halftrack that doubles as a mini supply depot, the halftrack has armored mount for an mg42/ or pak 37-75mm.

THe 12 man squad (including the driver and gunner) have 3 MG42/Mg34 with 3-4 automatic small arms( 2 mp43/ 1-2mp40) with 5 rifles of sorts.

a paratrooper 12 man squad would pack 2 mg34/mg42 with 4 automatic weapons (mp43, mp40) with the rest rifles, although the paras were priority for the G43.
I’m glad that this is not another Waffen-ss argument!

#4

i thought this would be interesting? :cry:

#5

I suppose if you throw in the SPWs you would be right. I like the little photos, where did you get them from?

Were para units never equipped with SPWs then? My knowledge of them is lacking Im afraid.

#6

http://www.granddadshobbyshop.com/Military.html
look around. Mr. voight does a lot of excellent war art.

well, generally, no. But, i’ve read accounts of them borrowing halftracks for attacks. THe paras are only fully motorized elite infantry.

#7

Nice topic you made it on mate, i like the 101st airborne division

#8

thanks. “Put down which division you think was the best in ww2 and why you think so. (accompishments, combat efficiency, etc.)” a photo would be nice too.
:lol:

#9

divisional history by Weidinger gives 2nd SS das reich division a confirmed tank kills of over 4,000 out of more then 8,000 claimed. making it the most destructive armored division built. interesting.

and, to get this very slow thread moving, ala wikipedia:

The division was activated on August 15, 1942. On August 19, 1942 its first commander, Major General William C. Lee, promised his new recruits that the 101st had a “rendezvous with destiny.”

General Order Number Five, which gave birth to the division, reads:

The 101st Airborne Division, activated at Camp Claiborne, Louisiana, has no history, but it has a rendezvous with destiny. Like the early American pioneers whose invincible courage was the foundation stone of this nation, we have broken with the past and its traditions in order to establish our claim to the future.

Due to the nature of our armament, and the tactics in which we shall perfect ourselves, we shall be called upon to carry out operations of far-reaching military importance and we shall habitually go into action when the need is immediate and extreme.

Let me call your attention to the fact that our badge is the great American eagle. This is a fitting emblem for a division that will crush its enemies by falling upon them like a thunderbolt from the skies.

The history we shall make, the record of high achievement we hope to write in the annals of the American Army and the American people, depends wholly and completely on the men of this division. Each individual, each officer and each enlisted man, must therefore regard himself as a necessary part of a complex and powerful instrument for the overcoming of the enemies of the nation. Each, in his own job, must realize that he is not only a means, but an indispensable means for obtaining the goal of victory. It is, therefore, not too much to say that the future itself, in whose molding we expect to have our share, is in the hands of the soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division.

During World War II, the Pathfinders of the 101st Airborne Division led the way on D-Day in the night drop prior to the invasion. They left from RAF North Witham having trained there with those of 82nd Airborne Division.

On August 2nd 1944 the division became part of the First Allied Airborne Army. As part of this formation it took part in Operation Market Garden.

During the Battle of the Bulge the 101st, as one of the few forces available to contain the German advance was rushed forward to defend the vital road junction of Bastogne. Famously, Brigadier General Anthony McAuliffe answered the German demand for surrender with the reply “To the German Commander: Nuts! -The American Commander” and the division fought on until the siege was lifted and the German advance halted.

For their efforts during World War II, the 101st Airborne Division was awarded four campaign streamers and two Presidential Unit Citations

#10

The problem with me here is that I have no criteria to work with. Finest Division or best Division?

Are we measuring kills, losses, days in action?

I with your posts so far as I dont have the data to argue.

Well done, give us a British candidate.

It could be kind off like the best fighter thread?

#11

what the difference?best/finest

ok, i’ll copycat what best fighter thread. but first, i need a list of divisions. please help me add more, anyone, especially for the british.

there should be two categories: best infantry/parachute division and best armored division for obvious reasons.

off the top of my head

good US infantry/parachute divisions

1st infantry (big red one)
3rd infantry
29th infantry
30th infantry
82nd airborne
101st airborne

Good US armored

1st armored
2nd armored
3rd armored
4th armored

Good British infantry/parachute
1st para
royal marine commando
Chindits (Special Force, 3rd Indian Infantry Division)

good british armored
1st armored
7th armored
guards armored

Good german infantry/parachute

1st fallshirmager
2nd fallshirmager
15th Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (lettische Nr. 1)

Good german armored
2nd panzer division
7th panzer
116th windhund
panzer lehr
21st panzer
11th panzer
1st ss LAH
2nd ss das reich
3rd ss totenkopft
5th ss wiking
12th ss hitlerjugend
[/quote]

#12

The problem with the British is that they tend to use Brigades not divisions. Brigades would be permanent and division made form these brigades.

You have also only fixed on WE, what about the Chindits (Special Force, 3rd Indian Infantry Division) made up of a number of commonwealth troops.

You should also consider the Army commandos.

The 7th armoured Brigade was probably was in combat the longest of all allied units.

The British would also move Bn around as it suited them so a Bn could start in one division at the start of the war and finish in a different one and in a different theatre at the end.

#13

2nd of foot, can i have exact titles then?

ill add royal marine commando and

Chindits (Special Force, 3rd Indian Infantry Division) then. any more?

#14

is it ok if i add stukas division (Schlachtgeschwader) and U-boat also ?
and ground forces i think i preferred this : 15th Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (lettische Nr. 1) and 15th Armee

#15

this is a ground forces debate.

15th army is an army, so no.

I will add 15th waffen though.

Welcome! :smiley:

can you put a short history of 15th waffen, and why you think its the best? I would really like this thread to move!

#16

ok, ill set up the first match-up

US 30th division VS US 101st Airborne division

30th

he 30th Infantry Division arrived in England, 22 February 1944, and trained until June. It landed at Omaha Beach, Normandy, 15 June 1944, secured the Vire-et-Taute Canal, crossed the Vire River, 7 July, and, beginning on 25 July spearheaded the St. Lo break-through. The day after the Division relieved the 1st Infantry Division near Mortain on 6 August, the German drive to Avranches began. Fighting in place with all available personnel, the 30th frustrated enemy plans and broke the enemy spearhead in a week of violent struggle, 7 to 12 August. The Division drove east through Belgium, crossing the Meuse River at Vise and Liege, 10 September. Elements entered the Netherlands on the 12th, and Maastricht fell the next day. Taking up positions along the Wurm River, the 30th launched its attack on the Siegfried Line, 2 October 1944, and succeeded in contacting the 1st Division, 16 October, and encircling Aachen.

After a rest period, the Division eliminated an enemy salient northeast of Aachen, 16 November, pushed to the Inde River at Altdorf, 28 November, then moved to rest areas. On 17 December the Division rushed south to the Malmedy-Stavelot area to help block the powerful enemy drive in the Battle of the Ardennes. It launched a counteroffensive on 13 January 1945 and reached a point 2 miles south of St. Vith, 26 January, before leaving the Battle of the Bulge and moving to an assembly area near Lierneux, 27 January, and to another near Aachen to prepare for the Roer offensive. The Roer River was crossed, 23 February 1945, near Julich.

The 30th moved back for training and rehabilitation, 6 March, and on 24 March made its assault crossing of the Rhine. It pursued the enemy across Germany, mopping up enemy pockets of resistance, took Hamelin, 7 April, Braunschweig on the 12th, and helped reduce Magdeburg on the 17th. The Russians were contacted at Grunewald on the Elbe River. After a short occupation period, the 30th began moving for home, arriving 19 August 1945.

101st

During World War II, the Pathfinders of the 101st Airborne Division led the way on D-Day in the night drop prior to the invasion. They left from RAF North Witham having trained there with those of 82nd Airborne Division.

On August 2nd 1944 the division became part of the First Allied Airborne Army. As part of this formation it took part in Operation Market Garden.

During the Battle of the Bulge the 101st, as one of the few forces available to contain the German advance was rushed forward to defend the vital road junction of Bastogne. Famously, Brigadier General Anthony McAuliffe answered the German demand for surrender with the reply “To the German Commander: Nuts! -The American Commander” and the division fought on until the siege was lifted and the German advance halted.

For their efforts during World War II, the 101st Airborne Division was awarded four campaign streamers and two Presidential Unit Citations.

#17

I vote for the 30th. Its performance against german armored elite was outstanding, and I believe that its mortain performance was the Best US defensive action of the war, even better then Bastogne.

this division, unfortunately, has been forgotten mostly because it was not designated as an elite unit.

#18

2nd of foot raised an interesting point you cannot rate a British division as they units within them were always being changed around, it would possibly more constructive to ask which was the best Brit infantry battalion/armoured regiment.

#19

can you give me some samples?

#20

Possibly one of the guards armoured units, one of the para battalions. The Gurkhas etc etc