E-Mail from Drake re. MikeM.

Drake ( mailto:drake_xl@web.de ) has reported this post:

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=114727#post114727

This is part of this thread:
Is It Too Late For England
http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5721

This is the reason that the user gave:
I think this is way outta line, this polemic bullshit is an insult to the victims

This message has been sent to all moderators of this forum, or all administrators if there are no moderators.

Please respond to this post as applicable.

I don’t know if this is worth a thread. But I agree that while Mike can be a decent, knowledgeable poster, his grating “polemic” (or sophist) style of rephrasing, or even completely rewriting one’s arguments or posts, is extremely insulting and unbecoming on a board such as this…

Already dealt with, I really don’t have a problem with the original post and said as much in an email to Drake a week or so back. While the particular post would be uncomfortable reading for anyone whose relatives died in those particular events, banning discussion of that is not the way to go - reasoned arguament is.

I actually think you’re more out of line than Mike in those two threads - you’re acting in a similar matter and as a mod you’ve got to be above all that. You’re still allowed to debate things, but have to be a whole lot more careful in picking and choosing your arguaments. Indeed, if anything I think of the two of you it’s you who is behaving the worst of the two. I haven’t said anything previously because that sort of thing is a matter for GS, Firefly or PK (all of whom appear to be on holiday right now) but you’re making me very nervous.

I did not realize you received the email also, as the other site I mod has a different system of alert (directly to the mod room) and Drake and I have corresponded at a different site. So perhaps I was confused…

While the particular post would be uncomfortable reading for anyone whose relatives died in those particular events, banning discussion of that is not the way to go - reasoned arguament is.

I emphatically agree. I have yet to ban or (intentionally) delete a single post here. I simply have a problem with censorship boards which recently got me banned at another board…

I actually think you’re more out of line than Mike in those two threads - you’re acting in a similar matter and as a mod you’ve got to be above all that.

I agree to some extent that I’ve acted below a Mod function here, as old habits (rotharmy.com) die hard. But, I think MikeM. is clearly acting, if unintentionally, as a troll.

His threads are largely inflammatory misinformation.

I have a good deal respect for you, your intellect, and your leadership ability which I rate highly and I think you are a great credit to the TA as a junior officer.

But, I must say…

You’re still allowed to debate things, but have to be a whole lot more careful in picking and choosing your arguaments. Indeed, if anything I think of the two of you it’s you who is behaving the worst of the two. I haven’t said anything previously because that sort of thing is a matter for GS, Firefly or PK (all of whom appear to be on holiday right now) but you’re making me very nervous.

You see, I think you make a good point. But, I also think we are guilty of a bit of enabling here. I have gone out of my way to avoid modding Mike, because of my personal arguments and possible vendetta with him. And yes, I realize I’ve made so slights in the heat of the moment which can be seen as “unprofessional” if this were actually a profession.:smiley: But frankly, I really don’t see him as much above Kato in some ways. I think he’s unequivocally a racist and routinely makes subtle, but pretty clearly nasty stereotypical comments, and he intentionally appears and makes comments in particular threads: i.e. Kato’s trolling racist masterpiece thread where he essentially ignored the entire argument only to focus in on one facet of my comments.

I’m sorry, but I find posters that:

-cavalierly and arrogantly demand proof or scholarship but never, ever offer any

-demanding answers to a bullet comment rewrite list of what he perceives one’s (pseudo)arguments

Both are pedestrian flaming techniques used by either Archie Bunker-like assholes or premeditated trolls. I think he’s probably more the former than the latter. What makes me question some of your thoughts here on this is that I’ve received a couple of accolade PMs from Rising Sun* essentially complementing me on my ability to argue and take insolence without resorting to banning and the use of mod powers. And while you may not have a problem with MikeM.'s “polemic” argument style, I think there are at least three long time posters here that do…

And as far as a summary courts marshal here. That’s fine. Perhaps I should have, like Rising Sun*, have turned down the modship on similar grounds that he did - that it restricts creative license and I either become a censorship bunny that simply deletes any posts he doesn’t like on some grounds of personal taste or I have to be the only mod that has to have to deal with shit thrown in his face. I’ll gladly tender my resignation if need be and will certainly not make a scene or hold any grudges as I respect an genuinely like reading everyone here and would continue to post unabated if demodded…

I’m sorry pdf27. I respect you immensely, and think you’re one of the top two posters here (RS* being my other favourite to read). But I think you’re a bit wide of the mark on this one…

In any case, no problems mate. Happy New years and cheers!

Nick Im going to send a PM to you and Mike!

I wish. I’m a wannabe junior officer - still stuck in the officer training machine until I fix my fitness and learn to keep things simple.

That’s the thing. I wouldn’t have a problem with any of your mod actions if you weren’t in the thread, nor would I have a problem with any of your posting if you weren’t a mod. It’s the combination of the two that worries me. Not only is it easy for you to be influenced by personal feelings in a situation like that, but far worse it is almost impossible for other people to be confident that you aren’t being influenced. The last thing we want is member X to be able to say “I was banned because mod Y didn’t like me/couldn’t deal with being wrong”. That’s largely why PK got into trouble - he couldn’t show clearly and transparently that he was totally above board.

Actually, I think he’s a bit of a tit. However, I don’t think he’s breaking any of the rules yet - hell, we let Ironman stick around for a year!
What I meant by the two of you as bad as each other is that there is a similar level of heat from both, and that neither of you are sourcing your arguaments very well.

I think you’re going a bit OTT on that one - what I meant was that it explicitly ISN’T my job to comment on other people’s modding so I didn’t say anything until prodded. Like I said above, my main concern is posting and modding in the same thread - when you do that, you have to be very, very careful to be seen to be above board.
My general attitude is that if you want to join in throwing sh*t at other members in a thread (something I have no problem with, if it follows the rules) you can’t then act as a mod in that thread in any major way (warnings/points, etc.). Best thing to do then is whack up a thread in here and get one of the other mods to deal with it - that way you aren’t seen to be potentially abusing your position, whether you are or not.

C’mon man, it’s dad’s army for fuck’s sake! :smiley:

But I know what you mean as some of the standards for fitness have little to do with actual fitness…

And as far as the “keep things simple,” well, i was a sergeant in the US Army, so I know what you mean only my problems were magnified with the lessor rank…

That’s the thing. I wouldn’t have a problem with any of your mod actions if you weren’t in the thread, nor would I have a problem with any of your posting if you weren’t a mod. It’s the combination of the two that worries me. Not only is it easy for you to be influenced by personal feelings in a situation like that, but far worse it is almost impossible for other people to be confident that you aren’t being influenced. The last thing we want is member X to be able to say “I was banned because mod Y didn’t like me/couldn’t deal with being wrong”. That’s largely why PK got into trouble - he couldn’t show clearly and transparently that he was totally above board.

Actually, I think he’s a bit of a tit. However, I don’t think he’s breaking any of the rules yet - hell, we let Ironman stick around for a year!
What I meant by the two of you as bad as each other is that there is a similar level of heat from both, and that neither of you are sourcing your arguaments very well.

I think you’re going a bit OTT on that one - what I meant was that it explicitly ISN’T my job to comment on other people’s modding so I didn’t say anything until prodded. Like I said above, my main concern is posting and modding in the same thread - when you do that, you have to be very, very careful to be seen to be above board.
My general attitude is that if you want to join in throwing sh*t at other members in a thread (something I have no problem with, if it follows the rules) you can’t then act as a mod in that thread in any major way (warnings/points, etc.). Best thing to do then is whack up a thread in here and get one of the other mods to deal with it - that way you aren’t seen to be potentially abusing your position, whether you are or not.

Sensible I guess. And yes, while I wasn’t here for Irongirl, I know what you mean as I’ve read his posts…

In any case, Mike is certainly clever enough to just skirt the rules. But he’s come pretty close to blatant trolling, but as I said, I doubt it is intentional (as Ironman obviously was).

'Fraid not. It was a nice safe drinking club* until 2001, when a few people started to get brown envelopes inviting them for 3 or 6 months in the Balkans to backfill troops going elsewhere. Then you fers invaded Iraq and everything changed. Now most people who’ve been in a while have done Telic (Iraq), quite a few have done Herrick (Afghanistan - one of my TA mates is off to Helmand with the Para Reg in March) and at least one guy in my unit has done both.
Hence the requirement now is that we’ve got to be very nearly as good as the regular army - when mobilized we are likely to be commanding regular troops. If it was Dad’s army I’d be a f
ing Colonel by now!

I have slightly different problems. An incredibly complicated plan will usually seem simple to me. I then give my orders and am rewarded with a sea of blank looks. NOT a good thing!

  • See my location - CAMRA is the Campaign For Real Ale

Well I’ll chip in with my tuppence here.

Mike M winds me up usually, thats why I tend to stay away from his threads other than the odd comment, like the one I made in his is England gone to the dogs thread as the UK has gun laws.

It seems to me that Mike M is all for Democracy as long as its on his terms and all else is branded Liberal.

However I do think that both PDF and Nick have valid points to make here. It is very difficult at times to disassociate yourself from a thread, especially if you know your right. My best advice there is to simply state that YOU WONT moderate this thread and ask another Mod to have a look at it. Otherwise the situation PDF describes too often can happen, as we have seen before.

However, we still have the best set of Mods I have seen here and it doesnt worry me if you do take the odd personal interest as long as it isnt abused by using Mod powers for your own purposes. Not that this has happened here though.

And PDF, regarding plans, you need to make it to your lowest common denominator and if thats thick Mick, then think like Mick! You know all this already of course but you can also run it through your most senior NCOs too and see what they can add/subtract to it.

I have often been briefed by officers who thought their plan was the best thing since sliced cheese only to see that same sea of blank stares.

Cheers.

Sadly I’m still in training so the only people who run over my plans are the Directing Staff. Who usually proceed to rip it to shreds on the grounds that it’s cr*p!

Oh, and I’m looking for a new job at the moment so am quite likely to move to another area so the whole TA thing is up in the air. I don’t suppose that being of the kilted type you would know anything about Glasgow? There’s a job going nearby that looks really fun but I don’t know anyone up there or anything about the area.

100 % agree. In fact this is the way that I dealt with Chevan 6-7 months ago in some Dresden thread. I have stated that I’ll not moderate that thread and I asked FF to take care of.

Unfortunately Im an East Coast type and although I have spent a good deal of time there dont profess to know anything too in-depth about being a Weegie!