"Erwin Bartmann"

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#1

Fake vets are a pain in the butt therefore our suspicion regarding the user in question was more than justified.
I googled the name and found some contributions of him on some german fora in which he actually writes in german. There he declares to be born on December 12, 1923 in Schlochau/Pomerania. Furthermore he writes that he had been dogsbody for a higher Waffen-SS officer (Hans Waldmüller) in 1942.
His “intercessor” on the forum, Hans Kurzen, sent a PM to me, saying that Bartmann had some highly interesting stories to tell, e.g. still being in contact with individuals like Rochus Misch (Hitlers bodyguard/telephone operator). Furthermore he describes Bartmann as “switched on” (please, anybody enlighten me!:D), surrounded by unfriendly neighbors and generally spoken as a lonely, a bit grumpy old fella. H. Kurzen even sent me a link to a photo of Bartmann in WW2 (strange enough on the Jewish Virtual Library): http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...FChrer_man.jpg

Anyway, as fanciful as it all sounds I start to believe that the guy is real and he didn’t post any potential fake vet-crap since he joined in late August.
Just wanted to let you guys know.

P.S. Hans Kurzen thinks that the webcam idea wouldn’t be a good thing since Bartmann still speaks a barely understandable english-german mix.

#2

It’s rather convenient for Erwin as a suspected troll to have a defender appear out of the blue, said defender now creating interest in Erwin while carefully denying access to him.

Why would Hans suddenly appear now when it’s been several months since Erwin graced the forum and hasn’t copped any flak since?

I’m willing to be persuaded that Erwin and Hans aren’t a troll double act (and possibly the same person in real life) laying the groundwork for a trollfest, but for the reasons I outlined from #507 in http://ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3971&page=34 and in this post, I’ll remain sceptical until their posts demonstrate that they’re genuine.

I find it surprising that an old man like Erwin shares Hans’s interest in modern bands, although it might be a different Erwin and Hans in Scotland. Scroll down the left on the link for comments by both. http://derekforbes.blogspot.com/2006/10/me-practising-for-blow-football.html

Is this the same Erwin (There could be several people with the same name)? http://books.google.com.au/books?id=LSCGxAunpDsC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq="erwin+bartmann"&source=web&ots=A0J58MCZOK&sig=vWU3XJsmVl43doesjXLYdNP2Sa8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result

Despite starting with “my name is erwin bartmann” in both posts, jerryjock can’t be our Erwin in Germany 1944-45 at http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=112682 as at #505 http://ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3971&page=34 he was in Russia from 1941 to the end of the war.

FTG, I expect these are some of the posts in German you mentioned, but does he contradict himself on the places he says he was at and the times he says he was there? http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q="mein+name+ist+Erwin+Bartmann"&btnG=Search&meta=

#3

Does any of this throw any light on the question?
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q="Rochus+Misch"+"erwin+bartmann"&meta=

#4

Hm, it would be a good thing to remain sceptical after all. However “Erwins” reports of personal war time experiences are kind of detailed it would be too easy to blame the location inconsistencies on dementia solely.:wink:
Maybe we should just wait if he comes up with some posts anyway.

#5

We should.

But I have a feeling that Hans is going to pave the way, and even interpret for an absent Erwin.

#6

Got a Visitor Message from Erwin Bartmann tonight in german language, saying:
“Dear flamethrowerguy, I am writing in german because it’s easier for me right now for my right hand is still swollen. What I would like is the following: Hans Kurzen called me up and asked if I want to write posts in the forum or record a video. The answer is yes. Now I need questions by members and what what they’d like to know. Just real questions, no rubbish. If it is possible for you could you get things started? Please write me if this is okay with you. I finish with best regards, Erwin Bartmann.”

Meanwhile a second intercessor joined the forum, called “Memeler” (http://ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=142605&postcount=611).

What’s your opinion about all this?

#7

I don’t know.

Kameradan has also joined as the third intercessor, which on gut instinct I find a bit suspicious.

It’s either genuine or an elaborate hoax.

On what’s on WWIIIC so far there is nothing but scepticism, accentuated by the trolling and aly j nonsense going on when Erwin joined the board, to suggest it’s a hoax, so that’s not grounds for concluding it is a hoax.

Outside WWIIIC there are posts which might reasonably be thought to come from the same source but which include contradictory information, but for all we know there is an Erwin impostor doing it.

Until there is evidence it’s a hoax, I think we should treat it as genuine as it would be unkind to Erwin if he is the real Erwin to disbelieve him from the outset when there is no evidence to support treating him as an impostor. That doesn’t mean we can’t test the evidence presented in support of Erwin’s authenticity.

Given what I’ve seen on the internet about a genuine Erwin Bartmann, there’s plenty of info available to enable someone to pretend to be him.

I did a bit of Googling on Hans Kurzen last night. He appears to be the ?half? brother of Derek Forbes of Simple Minds and ?fluent in German. http://derekforbes.blogspot.com/2006/03/heres-another-young-simple-minded-chap.html
http://derekforbes.blogspot.com/2006_03_01_archive.html March 23, 2006 entry. I’d expect that someone like that might have more brains than to play silly games on the internet, but who knows what years of sex, drugs and rock 'n roll can do to a simple mind? :smiley:

#8

BTW, Hans isn’t even in Scotland. His IP traces to England…

#9

I am waiting to see if they will actually do a video interview of Erwin Bartmann. So far it sounds as if Bartmann is willing. We’ll see if they actually follow up on this.

I guess that we need to come up with a list of questions for him…

#10

Either there were two Erwin Bartmanns in the LAH who were wounded at Kursk and our Erwin isn’t the following one who returned to Germany after also being wounded at Kursk, or there was only one Erwin and he or someone else purporting to be him is making things up either on WWIIIC or elsewhere.

It’s the second post as I can’t quote it in the English translation.
http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.gesucht-wird.eu/forum_gesucht_wird/forum/index.php%3Faction%3Dprintpage%3Btopic%3D1228.0&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=10&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%22erwin%2Bbartmann%22%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

Here’s the German version. http://www.gesucht-wird.eu/forum_gesucht_wird/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=1228.0

#11

Quite detailed info by one of the Erwins here, at the fourth post and following. http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/thread.php%3Fpostid%3D25846&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=3&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%22erwin%2Bw%2Bbartmann%22%2Blah%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

German version here. http://www.forum-der-wehrmacht.de/thread.php?postid=25846

Alas, this wasn’t our Erwin, who says he was in Russia till the end of the war.

#12

Is there a preferred site for mods to use for locating IP addresses?

According to Geobytes, Erwin’s ip address is well south of Scotland, in London.

Memler’s address is also in London.

Kameraden, however, is in Edinburgh.

Given the varying degrees of certainty with these identified locations, is it still possible that Erwin and Memler are in Scotland?

#13

Very much so - the UK’s a pretty small country, and IP addresses will often trace to places in other parts of the country. A good exercise would be to trace mine - what part of the UK does it show as being in?

It is easily possible for German former PoWs to end up in the UK - I used to know one called Siegfried Neumann personally. He had been a glider pilot prewar, and did some of the first cross-country gliding in the UK after the war. Not sure what he did in wartime, but he ended up here when his former home got transferred into the DDR.

#14

The very outer part.

In Reykjavik, Iceland, with 95% certainty on Geobyte. Must be a bugger attending TA nights from there. :wink:

That’s not in dispute.

The only issue is whether Erwin is who he claims to be.

#15

With all the information available on the net by/about Erwin Bartmann I find the spring of intercessors more fishy than the man himself.

#16

Exactly.

I found it odd that he emerged at a time when the site was being flooded with trolls and idiots with a post that got both your and my troll detecting antennae twitching. I find it even more odd that after he’s been dormant for several months his intercessors suddenly emerge, with nothing to provoke their sudden interest, when the site is free of trolls and idiots.

I find it quite odd that the long dormant Erwin’s swollen hand prevents him posting but allows him to type PM’s to you in German which, unlike English, apparently requires only left hand typing. :rolleyes:

If there are more posts on this aspect in the new members thread it might be worth transferring Erwin’s first post and all related posts into a new thread as I suspect it’s going to turn into the quarrel I sense they’re setting us up for. If so, it won’t be the most encouraging introduction for new members, and it might even be that that’s what they’re up to as I have a feeling this is the start of another forum busting exercise like aly j, although that remains to be seen.

#17

Maybe an old-fashioned phone call to Erwin B. by FF (being within spitting distance = lower costs) would get us some clarity.
But who am I to pass tasks on the boss?:mrgreen:

#18

Dammit, I forgot I was on holiday (!) when I wrote that. Anyway, I’m actually about 100km outside Rekyavik at the moment, on the south coast. I wouldn’t be surprised if any IP address traced to Rekyavik given the size of the country actually…
So, smartypants, where does my normal IP address come from?

#19

Paris. (France, not Texas.)

#20

Uh huh. And I´m currently living about 30km south of London - very much on the north side of the English Channel.