Fake or Real?

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#1

A few month ago i was talking about faked combat footage in world war 2 and todays Iraq documentaries/reports and a lot of people start to arguing in other forums with me that this can`t be true

well i do say that at least 90% of all combat footage you see today at the history cannel or any other place are fake … re-enacted or taken from firering ranges or field maneuvers

i`ve seen so many raw footage that i can say that the only real combat footage are the one made by guncamera and some of the footage taken in the pacific theatre.

this is an good example of an entirely re-enacted propaganda movie made by John Huston in 1945 called “The Battle of st Pietro”
http://208.75.230.43/kotic/stpetro.swf
defining the boundary between “re-enacted” footage and “real” footage is, of course, a sticky problem, but the degree to which the filmmaker, John Houston, worked to mask the re-enactment footage seems a little unethical to me, especially the attempt to “mesh seamlessly” re-enactments with footage taken at the actual event.

you know of other footage or photo`s that might be fake too ??

#2

Practically any footage in which people are supposedly under fire which is not shot from almost ground level, behind cover, running, or from a trench or foxhole is most likely re-enacted.

#3

sure, but dont you think that it is a bit off? i think re-enact dead soldiers or let american wear german uniforms to act as captured german soldiers is way off and lame. even today in iraq they re-enact battle situations for the tv camera. destroying whole towns just for the sake of having something to show at the 8 oclock news.
i mean, would you play this game when you where an correspondent ?

#4

Name one occasion where a whole town was destroyed purely for the cameras.

Failing that, keep taking the pills…

#5

The town of Karbilah, June 2005 during Opretion Spear
The destruction were carried out by the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment

#6

If you’re referring to Karbala, I think you’ll find it’s still there. As (so far as I can tell), having googled a bit more, the town of Karabillah to which you seem to be referring.
I concur with MoS about the pills…

#7

Thats true its still there, but large areas were destroyed in 2005

#8

Fake or Real??? You ask… Its real, what’s with you? I’m still waiting for you to post film that shows the women and kids getting blown away by strafing U.S. fighters in one of your earlier post.

#9

You think the bodys going into the body bags in the film you posted are not real? There real…look at the eyes…hands…fingers…thats what they look like. What are you trying to prove?

#10

Very true. Actual combat footage is rare and precious. Especially the variety that shows both combatant sides in the same frame. At the moment, I can think of only two instances regarded American forces in WWII.

The first was when a cameraman was surprised by a Japanese squad running on another side of a waist-high level wall in an urban setting on what I think is Okinawa circa 1945. US Marines taking cover behind said wall pop up and promptly gun them down…

The other is posted in the “M-26 Pershing” thread and is entitled “High Noon in Cologne.”

#11

Can’t give reference, but I recall a pretty gritty piece of film of Americans in Italy in WWII, pretty much ground hugging and fire and movement on a ?bushy slope, with the enemy unseen and the grunts working hard.

#12

I think the two most common examples of Real footage are fighter gun cams used over Europe extensively and of course US naval operations in the Pacific.

digger

#13

These footage were taken in sicily
I was referring to the COMBAT footage you can see in this movie

what i try to prove is, that at least 90% of all combat footage is FAKE and i wonder why those cameramen did this.
They had all the horror of war right in front of them and still they choose to re-enact it
most of the poeple who`r watching the history channel today think that they see the real thing

actually that footage was taken at TARAWA in 1943… interesting thing is that Stanley Kubrick used that footage as idea for one of the scenes in his movie FULL METAL JACKET in 1987
In fact, they don`t get any of the japanese soldiers because when the japanese past a small spot, between two bunkers, most of the US Marines were out of amonition and reloading :mrgreen:

#14

How do you know they’re not?

#15

because i`ve seen the raw version of the footage … the way the film material did came out of the camera
you can see very easaly that most of the footage where taken waaaay behind the front line … soldiers left and right smoking … so drunk they even drop their guns etc :mrgreen:
pretty funny stuff

#16

Must be a nice army where soldiers coming out of the front can get so drunk they’re dropping their weapons but still manage to re-enact action.

Do you have any examples of this footage that we can view?

#17

sure… only problem is that im in the process of moving ... but ill see what i can find

#18

About this footage … you must understand that i have 8 reels of guncamera footage
Each reel has approx 2hr30min of footage normaly the sequences are only some seconds because the camera were syncronized with the guns and most pilots did only fire short bursts
now ive really trouble to find that seqeunce... but im on it
only thing that i can recall was that he was flying very slow and low the poeple were fleeing from the train towards the camera(fighter) i think that they were hoping that he`s going for the train but he opens fire on the area in front of the train waving from laft to right with his plane to strafe the whole area

#19

You can see the scene with the drunken soldiers in the movie “St Petro” they hade some spaghetti and red whine and some had more red whine than spaghetti :mrgreen:
BTW thats why they all shewing their gums in this movie .. they cant stand the gerlic :wink:

#20

First of all its called editing…if they showed film’s the way they were shot or came out of the camera lots of it wouldn’t be very interesting or confusing. These guys are trying to tell a story, some company’s had combat cameramen with / assigned to them and they cant be in two places at once filming both sides of the action.
Yes…when the film is edited some scenes may be placed that are from other battles or areas but that’s to try and tell the story better. Where do you get that most of the footage we see is reenacted, don’t know where you come up with that???
I’m just amazed that all the 1000’s of hours of WWII footage has been reenacted…and I bet the moon landing was faked too.