Whilst on my summer camp I got to look at some old deactivated SLRs, and it got me wondering, those brits who have used both whcih do you prefer?
Good Points;
Automatic, accurate, bigger magazine
Bad points;
jams, complicated, lower calibre
Good points;
bigger calibre, better for parade, longer (suposedly good for bayonet?)
Bad points;
small magazine, not automatic, possibly too long
Your opinions please.
I have to admit, the picture is in fact a action man toy, but it looked good enough for government work. :roll:
Not used the A2, only the A1.
Any wpn that can’t be fired from the left-shoulder is a no-no IMHO.
I own an SLR (Fazakerly 1959) and it’s lovely.
My main issue with the SoS is that it cannot be fired left of cover.
But if I get time I’ll go into detailed reasons.
The major complaint against the L1A1 is that the ammo is a lot heavier to carry, rechambering it to 6mm would be a possible solution.
But I’ve not had any stoppages, (apart from using sub-std ammo,) ever !
Reference your comments about one being selective and the other semi-auto, I can’t really see the point of full auto for a battle rifle.
If you need multiple hits then look at the ammo you’re using, is it ineffective ?
Otherwise practice the double-tap.
Sorry for bothering. I wanted just to post a clear picture of SA80
I suppose the new one:
I have refrained from getting into the SA80 is shit arguments as I disagree with most. For the first 13 or so year I used an SLR and for the next 12 an SA80. Most of my operational time was with the SLR. I was a competent shot and represented the Bn at NECIC (75) and Bisley (77). I was SAA instructor from 78 to 98. So my experience with both weapons was extensive.
Left handed firing – in reality it was a bit like firing using the respirator, we all did it but had difficulty hitting any thing smaller than a fig 121 at 100m. it is nice to have the cover and the threat that you can return fire from the left shoulder, but you are unlikely to hit anything especially as you would probably be standing supported or kneeling supported. When moving and covering gaps (urban) it was useful to change hands but to turn and walk backwards was just as simple.
Weight of weapon – not much in it and as I had grown up always carrying (16 Junior soldier) a rifle in my hands, never get caught with the rifle slung unless both hand are full and over flowing, it was no real problem. With most of the SA80s weight in the back and closer to the body it felt lighter. The most startling concept was that you always used the sling on the SA80. This mad a big difference to the weight and ensured it was always to hand. The main advantage was the ammo load and speed of reloading mag if you had a nice small US loader (her name was Sue). Fitting the bayonet made a very big difference to the SLR with weight and firing. Also the early bayonets on the SA80 had a habit of bending, we had a number bend and some break when in the US. Overall the adoption of the sling made the real difference.
Serviceability – I never had a problem with the SLR except when we had captured argie ammo for training. I was very happy with the SLR and got to the stage where I could tell the type of stoppage by the feel of the trigger. The SLR was not perfect, it stopped, you carried out the IA drill, it worked. I never encountered any real problems with the SA80. This would fly in the face of what is said by many, but I never saw any great difference to that of the SLR, it stopped, you carried out the IA drill, it worked. My Bn was in the first wave to get the rifle in 87. The problems encountered were mags, old US colt mag that went gold very quickly. When they got replaced feed problems lessened and capacity of mag went up. The mag release catch was a problem caused by its location and how the weapon was carried. This was over come by one of our armourers making and gluing a guard on the side of the rifle. He got a payment for this mod. I think the location of the mag release had more to do with buying mags off the shelf then ergonomics. A method that was used by troops was to have string attached to the bottom of the mag and clipped onto the rifle so that if it did fall off it was attached. We had the occasional num nuts who put the gas plug in the wrong way and the return spring flying through the air on occasions.
The small plastic square used to release the holding open device was crap, but I got use to using the holding open device to release the workings. Never had a problem with the cocking handle, the one on the SMG was deadly.
I loved my SLR a real rifle, I also loved my SA80 it served me well.
The SA-80 I was issued worked OK & didn’t stop /that/ much, but I’ve never had any problem other than running the gas too lean on the SLR that I own (the portuguese ammo I’ve got at the moment runs fine with the gas right open - but I have to remember to close it off by a couple of clicks after 100rds as it fouls).
However, there were others in my OTC who could not get more than a couple of rounds out of the SA-80 without a stoppage (they were wpn handling mongs too - probably weren’t oiling after wpn inspection).
The other left-shoulder issue that you fail to mention is for the 10% of people who are left-handed, who have to retrain to be wrong-handed. They can’t use the left-side of cover properly either.
Stoat just to clarify on the SLR 6 is normal, 1 is fully closed ie no gas going out the gas regulator, how do you set yours. I can not remember turning it down more than 2 clicks. And we are 5 for 129 and it was a fantastic ball. :lol: :lol: :lol:
With commercial ammo (Magtech) or Danish I’m on 6. With Portuguese FNM military I’m up on 10 or 9, normally. When it fouls I then close it off 2 & it’s fine again.
With reference to jams with the SA80, i personally have had very few problems, but then that’s because i spend a lot of time cleaning it. That seemed to be the consensus, if you cleaned it often you were less likely to get jams.
Reference your comments about one being selective and the other semi-auto, I can’t really see the point of full auto for a battle rifle.
If you need multiple hits then look at the ammo you’re using, is it ineffective ?
Otherwise practice the double-tap.
I would argue that you need auto for some situations i.e. fibua. When clearing rooms I think you need to spray a room as your more likely to hit something than firing a couple of rounds were you might miss. This is true when poking your rifle through a slit or round a corner prior to bursting into a room, lots of spray = bigger chance of hitting someone.
That is what the SMG was for! 
Full-auto with a full-power rifle cartridge in a normal rifle might be fun, but it’s not big & it’s not clever.
That why you carry lots of grenades.
Especially if you are on the other side of the wall. :oops:
SLR…couldn’t break it, reasonable accuracy, stopping power of an elephant gun, only single shot, could not carry much ammunition.
SA80…bit delicate in the earlier models, more accurate, less stopping power but equally lethal in the end, automatic option, can carry vast amounts of ammunition.
If you want firepower then the SA80 wins in my view, if you want to stop them dead in their tracks then the SLR is the toy of choice.
MiB (who doesn’t have to worry about these things anymore)
I’m back early off my hol’s ( feking work ) but will be returning to my Brewed in all points sunny in a day or two. I have to post in support of the SLR, SA 80 post dates my service, having held one at a county show a couple of years back it felt like a poundland toy in comparison. Fire power aside if I had to go bayonet and butt I would have to go with the SLR though the shorter length of the SA80 looks faster for target aquisition during contact , I prefer that beautiful combination of wood and metal it felt like a real weapon, it looked mean and it would stop a bus.
If I was serving now I would want one of those FN thingy,s that SG1 use on TV, no stopages, acurate and top jaffar stopability.
It’s only a subgun though (fires the 5.7mm pistol round), and balances wierdly, so I’ve heard.
Right well that would explain why it was useless aginst Anubis’s super soldiers now if they had been using the SLR they couldve dropped them no problem and then followed up with a bit of twating arond the head. Mind you those FN thingy’s where a bit handy against those malevolant Meccano sets ( Replicators )
I’m home alone with beer and a puter, slowly but surly the lines between reality and fantasy are begining to blur
I never would have guessed! :lol: