Post here all the info you got about France guns, artillery,machineguns of ww1 and ww2.
please help…I dont have much 
Are you looking for photos, info, what? I know somethings about the 1940 arms - e.g., French used a large variety of rifles of rifles - the MAS mle 36 was the standard “on the books,” but was probably not (I’m writing by memory here) the most numerous. They used the Lebel 1986/15 as the standard rifle for the VB rifle grenade launcher, etc.
I’d thought there was a thread here about French arms, but I’m not seeing it in the index. You can start on-line here: http://armesfrancaises.free.fr/les%20armes.html
and here: http://www.secondeguerre.net/articles/armes/index.html
Are you looking for photos, info, what? I know somethings about the 1940 arms - e.g., French used a large variety of rifles of rifles - the MAS mle 36 was the standard “on the books,” but was probably not (I’m writing by memory here) the most numerous. They used the Lebel 1986/15 as the standard rifle for the VB rifle grenade launcher, etc.
Looking for All, photos, ammunition , bring it on.
An oldie, and fairly obscure, Mitrailleuse. Later 1800’s multi barreled weapon. Was never taken seriously. (probably designed by the same guy who came up with the ChauChat.)
Interesting, multibarrelled but nor rotary barrels right ?
That is correct, stationary barrels, stacked pepper box style, a magazine of cartridges was placed in the breech area,basically loading all the barrels at once,the mechanism was cycled, and the weapon would fire all the shots in succession(I believe) until the ammo was expended. I’ll see if there is a pic of the muzzle.
Interesting, actually i think it was more practical than the imfamous Cho-cho. Probably it jammed much less. :mrgreen:
Hi Panzerknacker,
I’ll try to remember to pull something together for you over the weekend, but admit I have a lousey memory for such things. If I don’t produce at least a little bit early next week, pls nag me by PM. I’ll try NOT to duplicate info from the two web sites I posted, and will try to find more sites (at least re WWII), to avoid needless ptyping and posting of images.
In the mean time, here’s a little info on one interesting weapon: the Canon d’Infanterie de 37 modèle 1916 TRP. The image below is linked from the Wiki site, but that site really doesn’t give much info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Puteaux_37mm_gun2.jpg
What I find interesting about the gun is its reputation for accuracy: it was, in fact, France’s weapon of choice for dealing with German snipers during WWI, as well as for their own “sniping.” Once the French had located a German sniper, they would bring up one of these, and one shot generally solved the problem. In WWI, the weapon had no wheels, and was also known as a trench mortar. That probably made it more flexible for moving about the trenches, but its mobility was probably something of a draw back. The wheels were added either in 1918 or post war; the shield was not always used. The weapon was the basis of the US M1916 howitzer and the Japanese Type 11 infantry gun. The Poles bought some from the French, and deployed them mostly on its eastern borders with the USSR. France, Japan, Poland and the US all used these weapons in WWII as well.
Another comment about the sniping: the Germans respected Britian’s snipers during WWI, but were contemptous of French skill – at least so far as sniping with rifles goes. Was dismal French performance with due to lack of skill/training, or due to a preference to this gun? Dunno.
Speaking of sniping, this what the French used as their sniper rifle in both World Wars: the lebel mle 1886/93, with an APX 1916 scope.
And with that, I’ll toss another link at you: a thread I started at another forum…
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=145961
Hi Panzerknacker,
I’ll try to remember to pull something together for you over the weekend, but admit I have a lousey memory for such things. If I don’t produce at least a little bit early next week, pls nag me by PM. I’ll try NOT to duplicate info from the two web sites I posted, and will try to find more sites (at least re WWII), to avoid needless ptyping and posting of images.
In the mean time, here’s a little info on one interesting weapon: the Canon d’Infanterie de 37 modèle 1916 TRP. The image below is linked from the Wiki site, but that site really doesn’t give much info.
Thanks for your contribution , incidentally I was reading today that a Puteaux 37mm was emplaced between the “V” engine of Some Spads.
Speaking of sniping, this what the French used as their sniper rifle in both World Wars: the lebel mle 1886/93, with an APX 1916 scope.
Did that straight bolt handle colided with the scope in that type of mountings ?
Some details of the early Hotchkiss gas operated MG.
Did that straight bolt handle colided with the scope in that type of mountings ?
The scope was mounted offset to the left. I’ve never fired a gun with a scope mounted this way, and never fired a bolt action rifle, period. But I would assume the offset mount was how the designers avoided potential collisions?
I forgot about looking for more photos…
The scope was mounted offset to the left.
Oh, I see, like some british sniper rifles of WW1.
Interesting video showing how the Hotchkiss heavy multibarrel machinegun worked, not quite like the Gatling.
This one was the standar squad light machinegun when France began ww2, as usual with several design its characteristics were not fully convincing and some definately below the enemy weapons ( i.e german)
Chatellerault Machine Gun
The French, ending World War I with the realization that they had been armed throughout the conflict with the worst automatic weapon ever designed, the Chauchat, were the first of the Allies to adopt a post-war machine gun. This new arrival was the Chatellerault, named after one of the French Government arsenals, Manufacture d’Armes de Chatellerault. It was in design very similar to both the Berthier and the American (Browning) B.A.R., having many Features of each.
It first made its appearance in prototype stage in 1921 but was not officially adopted by the French Army until 1926; and then only after many modifications had been made on the original, giving it even more Browning characteristics. About the only basic difference was the employment of a box magazine holding 30 rounds inserted from the top that made unnecessary the forked piston used on the B.A.R.
The Chatellerault had two triggers housed by a guard, the forward one for single shot, the rear for automatic fire. A gas device, that could be regulated, worked in conjunction with an adjustable back-plate buffer to permit variable rates of fire at the control of the gunner. The top magazine arrangement made necessary an awkward off-setting of the sight.
The French had found from earlier attempts at machine gun design that their 8-mm Lebel rifle cartridge with its stubby and steep conical rimmed case was most certainly not the best-shaped cartridge for automatic use. Therefore included in the plans for this gun were drawings for a completely new round of ammunition. The result was a 7.5-mm rimless cartridge case with practically no taper on it, very similar in appearance to the Swiss Army cartridge from which it was closely copied even to the boat-tail 149-grain cupro-nickel bullet.
The Chatellerault weighed slightly under 20 pounds and was not only heavier but much more
Chatellerault Machine Gun, Model 1923, 7.5 mm.
This is a Prototype Gun, Serial Number 11.
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expensive to make than the Chauchat, since the latter gun was more of a plumbing assembly than a precision-made automatic weapon.
The French, as usual, had very little money for development and production of machine guns. As it has always been a policy of theirs to encourage adoption of their own weapons by friendly powers and prospective Allies, their military attachés who were located in such countries were instructed to spread favorable reports on the performance of the Chatellerault machine gun, even before it was officially tested, and to indicate it would be available for purposes of adoption if the authorities could be interested.
In 1925 the Yugoslav Government was carrying on a competitive trial in which several European-made machine guns were tested. The Hotchkiss Co.'s entry made the most satisfactory showing and was on the verge of being contracted for when the French attaché offered the Chatellerault gun at the ridiculously low price of 2,000 francs, although it had not been entered in the competition. He intimated that it had successfully met all the demands of the French proving grounds.
A Yugoslav commission was then sent to France to investigate the claims of the Chatellerault. It was found the price quoted could not be met but, although higher than first stated, it was still considerably less than the market price of similar machine guns. The catch this time was that only a few pilot models were in existence as their manufacture on a large scale had not yet begun. The Yugoslavs, desiring an early date of delivery, called for another competitive test. This time they did not find either the Chatellerault or the Hotchkiss acceptable, the contract going for a machine gun made by another country.
A similar situation arose with the Rumanians who also sent their commission to France. However, they demanded and arranged a test before consideration of purchase. During one of the demonstrations, with one of the group firing the weapon while other members stood by, an explosion occurred in the receiver of the gun. The operator was seriously injured, as well as several others of the commission.
The Rumanians were told that through sabotage a cartridge with only enough powder barely to drive the bullet into the bore, caused two bullets to be present in the barrel for the next round, causing the regrettable incident. No explanation as to how the sub-loaded cartridge had gotten into the feed was forthcoming. The Rumanians, not quite satisfied with the explanation, in the presence of the French military attaché, produced the same condition with a Hotchkiss machine gun. The result was a swollen barrel but no violent explosion occurred.
After the weapon’s adoption by the French Army, a number of explosions of identical nature took place, and quite a few soldiers were injured. As the blame could not be placed on defective ammunition, but rather on the weapon itself, it is easy to understand that the French
Chatellerault Machine Gun, Model 1924-29, 7.5 mm.
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soldiers were considerably exercised over its dangerous characteristic. The troops in the field asked that they be issued the heavier and outmoded Hotchkiss in place of the Chatellerault.
The country’s high command was brought to the realization that development work, if any, must be paid for by France and not by some smaller country, and that modification should be made without delay as the weapon had made such an unfavorable impression even among French troops. Necessary redesign was finally done, but, as is usually the case, once a weapon lets the reputation for unreliability, its bad name outlives by years the correction that remedies the malfunction.
It was also a severe blow to the sensitive pride of French military engineers that they did not seem able to copy either the B.A.R. or Berthier, both having proved reliable weapons, especially since, just before the weapon was tested, newspapers heralded the new gun built in great secrecy and now ready to be shown to the public for the first time. A sample follows of such advance publicity, as written by a reporter for the Paris Echo on 6 February 1924:
[INDENT]“A machine gun, the Chatellerault, said to be the invention of a French artillery officer . . . is equal or superior to its competitors with respect to its manner of operation, and is far ahead of them in regard to facility with which it can be handled and its principles taught to recruits-factors which are more and more important to recognize owing to the short time of military service and the considerable amount to war material, the handling of which all has to be taught to recruits . . . French arsenals are now working overtime to supply a large part of the French infantry with the new Chatellerault automatic rifle. A soldier can fire 30 shots from one burst from the shoulder with the new rifle and the French authorities consider it the most effective weapon of any army of the world. Eventually every French soldier will carry the new rifle.”
It later came to light that nothing was basically wrong with the design of the weapon. The main fault lay in the pressure brought to bear by the two government arsenals, Chatellerault and St. Etienne, on high officials to have all developments done at these two army-controlled factories. It was pointed out by personnel of these government plants that they had successfully produced weapons for the army since their date of establishment.
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