French weapons-in-use Photos request

[Ardee]

I’ve a hobby of collecting WWII photos related to the different weapons used, at which I’ve spent a lot time searching books and the Internet. Finding pictures of some of the weapons in use has proven difficult, even though I’ve been doing this for more than a decade. Ideally, the photo would be of the entire soldier (or crew) and clearly show the entire weapon, and preferably would have been taken during combat or “maneuvers” (but I’ll take anything I can get!). I thought I’d throw out some of what I’m looking for from France’s army in 1940 and see if anything comes back – for some, like a sniper rifle, I would be shocked if anyone actually had one, but…can anybody point me to a link, book, or other resource that has clear (relatively hi-rez) that shows

French Army, 1940:
Sniper (in this sense, a marksman, not a gillie-suited expert) and rifle (the French used a lebel mounting a scope basically the same weapon in WWI. A photo of such a rifle is below. – Actually, if anyone has a similar photo of ANY minor power using a sniper rifle, I’d love to see it – so far, among the minors, all I have is one of a Finn.

Soldier firing a lebel rifle equipped with a VB grenade launcher (cup) – I have some WWI images, and an inter-war (1920s) photo, but none from or just preceding WWII.

Soldiers using the 37mm mle 1916 field gun, sometimes called a trench mortar, or even a howitzer. Again, a picture of the weapon is below (the middle image). The weapon was common in WWI, and I have several photos of such use, but none from WWII. My reading suggests that some or all of these guns were equipped with a wheeled carriage in the inter-war period, and some also received a shield.

A French 47mm mle 1936 SA (aka by several other names, including “canone de antichars 47mm mle 1936 SA”, “47mm mle 36 APX”, and more), a towed anti-tank gun. I’ve come across several photos from WWII, but all seem to be cropped, or have lousy contrast, low-resolution, or all of the above. A photo of the gun is below, right side.

Any help would be appreciated. Also, I have a descent-sized collection of photos dealing with small arms and light artillery/ATGs. Waaaaay too time-consuming to try posting on this site, but if anybody is looking for something in particular, I’d be happy to take a look…

[bwing55543]

French soldiers with MAS-36s:

So far, that was all I could find. I’m not sure what kind of mortar they’re using in this picture.

[George_Eller]

Canon de 25mm SA Mle1934 (Hotchkiss)

Picture provided by Pierre-Olivier Buan
http://www.tbof.us/data/atg/25mm/25mm_mle1934_anti_tank_gun.htm

Canon de 25mm SA Mle1934 (Hotchkiss)
Caliber : 25x194R mm
Crew : 1 NCO + 5 men (+ 1 driver)
Weight : 480kg (SA34 carriage)
Length : 3.71m
Width : 1.05m
Height : 1.10m (at the shield)
Protection : the shield is 7mm thick
Barrel length : 1.80m
Rate of fire : 25 rpm against fixed target and 15 rpm against moving target
Traverse : 60°
Elevation : -5° to +15°
Telescopic sight : 4x (L.711 telescopic sight, with a 3450m range drum, field of view 10.13°, V reticle)
V° : 920 m/s
Practical range :
800m (heavy armored vehicles)
1000m (medium armored vehicles)
1500m (light armoured vehicles and softskins)
Penetration : 40mm/0° at 500m; 32mm/35° at 200m

Ammunitions:
Cartouche de 25mm Mle1934 à balle perforante (charge forte) (AP) - in German service: Pzgr 122(f)
Caliber : 25x194R mm
Weight of projectile : 0.320 kg (steel/tungsten core)
Length of projectile : 109 mm
V° = 950 m/s (charge forte = 148g propellant powder – more propellant to offset shorter barrel length)
Penetration : 40mm/0° at 500m; 32mm/35° at 200m

German tests :
The test was carried out 1/8-1941 with a 2,5cm KwK 121(f) by HWA on a 120 kg/mm2 armor plate (source : “Kennblätter fremden geräts heft 8a, Munition bis 3,6 cm” Released in Berlin 1941).
100 meters = 47mm /0°
500 meters = 40mm /0°
1000 meters = 30mm /0°

100 meters = 35mm /30°
500 meters = 30mm /30°
1000 meters = 20mm /30°

100 meters = 18mm /45°
500 meters = 16mm /45°
1000 meters = 15mm /45°

Cartouche de 25mm Mle1934 à balle traçeuse perforante (charge forte) (APT) - in German service: Pzgr 123(f) Probably white tracer, tracer effect up to 2000m.

Cartouche de 25mm Mle1934 à balle traçeuse perforante (charge forte) (APT) - in German service: Pzgr 124(f) - Red tracer, tracer effect up to 2000m.

Source:
David Lehmann
British Manual for the 25mm Hotchkiss Anti Tank Gun
German documents from the National Archives.

25mm SA light model 37 APX AT gun (Saumur Tank Museum)

http://enpointe.chez-alice.fr/di.html

Canon de 47mm L/53 Mle1937 (SA37)

The 47mm Mle1937 was a very powerful anti tank gun for 1940, it was able to knock out any
German tank from 800 to 1000 meters and beyond.

There are reports of these same guns mounted on the Laffly W15 TCC destroying
4 German tanks at a range of 2000 meters.

Excerpt from the Book Tank Fighter Team By Robert M Gerard
“When the first German tank came close enough, approximately 800 yards, the 47-mm.antitank-gun crew opened fire. At this position I had placed the crew I considered most efficient, because antitank gun (1) was the most important spot in our defense. This crew really knew how to fire. In two shots it hit the first German tank in the column and put it out of action. The shell seemed to have gone through the tank like butter. But our feeling of complacency over this did not last long. The second tank was shooting high-explosive shells against the edges of the village. One of the shells fell not very far away.
The 47-mm antitank-gun crew, however, opened fire again and got this second tank.
The German column then hesitated a little.”
(In the end this 47mm gun crew accounts for 4 of the 7 tanks killed.)

Specifications:
Canon de 47mm L/53 Mle1937 (SA37)
Caliber : 47x380R mm
Crew : 1 NCO + 5 men
Weight : 1070kg
Length : 4.10m
Width : 1.62m
Height : 1.10m
Barrel length : 2497mm (2350mm rifling)
Rate of fire : 15-20 rpm
Traverse : 68°
Elevation : -13° to +16.50°
Telescopic sight : 4x (field of view 10.13°, + reticle, adjustable drum up to 3500m)
V° : 855 m/s

Ammuntion:
Obus de rupture Mle1936 (APCBC)
Caliber : 47x380R mm
Weight of projectile : 1.726 kg (1.710 kg without ballistic cap)
Length of projectile : 192 mm (APC 144.5mm + BC 92mm, total length of the shell : 555.5mm)
V° = 855 m/s

Penetration:
60mm 30° at 600 yards
80mm 15° at 200 yards

http://www.tbof.us/images/atg/british_Mle1937.jpg

Obus explosif Mle1932 M39 (HE)
Caliber : 47x380R mm
Weight of projectile : 1.410 kg (142g explosive)
V° = 590 m/s

Source:
David Lehmann
Documents from the British Archives provided by David Boyd
The book Tank Fighter Team by Robert M Gerard
German documents from the National Archives

World War II French infantry weapons
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:World_War_II_French_infantry_weapons

Mle 1914 Hotchkiss machine gun

La mitrailleuse de 8 mm Hotchkiss modèle 1914 (text in french with extensive photograph collection):
http://armesfrancaises.free.fr/Mitr%20Hotchkiss%2014.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchkiss_M1914_machine_gun
Hotchkiss Guns
http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/mgun_hotchkiss.htm

Hotchkiss 1914 YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcsATZxQBbQ

FM 24/29 light machine gun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_24/29_light_machine_gun

http://www.gunsworld.com/french/fm2429_us.htm
Gallery
http://www.gunsworld.com/french/2429/2429_gal_us.html
http://www.gunsworld.com/french/2429/2429_gal2_us.html
Manual
http://www.gunsworld.com/french/2429/2429_m1_us.html

FM 24/29 YouTube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ6GBJbvimg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poDZYR9H8Ew

Pistolet Mitrailleur MAS modèle 38 (Submachine Gun)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAS-38

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg88-r.htm

http://www.corriere.it/english/gallery/20040805.shtml

This photo, taken on August 4 2004, shows the French MAS 38 automatic pistol, manufactured in 1938, which has reportedly been identified as the weapon used to shoot the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini on April 28, 1945. The gun, exhibited at Albania’s National Historical Museum in Tirana, was given to an Albanian communist leader in 1957 by Walter Audisio (code name Valerio), who took part in Mussolini’s execution. The gun has been in the museum since the 1980s.
(AFP Photo/Gent Shkullaku)

MAS 38 SMG YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTCc4XFtcnU

MAS Modèle 36 rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAS-36_rifle

http://www.oldrifles.com/French.htm

MAS 36 YouTube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbXRpV09-ew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxi417zOHKQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S1E5d77rfQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vncar9vD9Zw

Berthier Infantry Rifle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthier_rifle

http://www.oldrifles.com/French.htm

http://www.gunsworld.com/french/bert_leb/bert_us.html
http://www.gunsworld.com/french/bert_leb/bert_ga4_us.html
http://www.firstworldwar.com/weaponry/rifles.htm

Berthier Model 1916 rifle with 3 shot mag…YouTube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPU-IFDrVPI

Lebel Fusil d’Infanterie Modèle 1886 (Rifle)

http://www.oldrifles.com/French.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebel_Model_1886_rifle
Carbine

1886 8mm French Lebel rifle YouTube videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAi_gj19Zzc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axE1g3rtoYo

ALSO:

The Battle Of France
http://www.tbof.us/

Tanks in France
http://the.shadock.free.fr/Tanks_in_France.html

Chars-Francais
http://www.chars-francais.net/

France 1940
http://france1940.free.fr/
http://france1940.free.fr/en_index.html

Merriam Press
http://www.merriam-press.com/

un-Official French Guns Page
http://www.gunsworld.com/frenchguns_home_us.html

French Rifles
http://www.oldrifles.com/French.htm

THOSE FRENCH RIFLES
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/frenchrifles/index.asp

[George_Eller]

French Gun Portees
http://www.afrikakorps.org/antitankgunportees.htm

Schneider 75mm Mle 1931 rolled onto a truck bed…

These Dodges with 37mm Model 1916…FM24/29

[Ardee]

Well, guys thanks for the input, and there are several good photos here…maybe we should change this into a general thread for posting images of WWII weapons! I’ll try to remember to pick out a few photos of my own to add to the above (my collection is on another PC). But I’m still also hoping somebody might be able to help me with at least one of the items in my initial request?

[Ardee]

Okay, here a few more French photos…I’ll start with the best photo I have of the 47mm ATG in action that I have (at least, the best one I have while they were still in French hands…). There are also two battle scenes from Narvick, showing infantry crossing RR tracks and a LMG position, as well as a 2nd Lt with a MAS 38 SMG.

[navyson]

Those are some nice pics ardee, you ought to post them on the picture site.

[Ardee]

A few more: A French halftrack mounting a Hotchkiss; the Famous French 75 mle 1897, as modernized for WWII;a 81mm mortar crew; and a 12.7mm Hotchkiss mounted on trails. I read once that the French had an “anti-tank rifle” mounted on trails, for use by cavalry units. While this gun is clearly being used for AA, the weapon would also have been very effective against the armour of 1940 – so, I think this is what that author was referring to. TTBOMK, the French had to anti-tank rifles per se in 1940. There are sometimes references their obtaining some Boys .5 guns from the UK, but the delivery, if it actually occurred, does not seem to have come in time to reach front-line troops.

[Panzerknacker]

French army pics operating in Narvik are very rare, at list to me, very good posting Ardee.

[flamethrowerguy]

Indeed hard to find action photos of the requested issue. As a start some french MG’s till I find better ones:

[Ardee]

Erp! I might have misstated the caliber of the Hotchkiss in my post about the HMG on trails. I thought it 12.7mm, but FTG’s 13.2mm also sounds correct. I’ll have to check. I also have a photo of the same gun on a tripod for field use, but no photos of it being “used.” Interestingly, the French had just finished the development of a belt-fed version of the gun, for use with aircraft. It was considered a secret, as they didn’t want all the nations they had sold the magazine-fed version to (e.g., Japan) to know they might be able to convert it. IIRC, the caliber - whichever one is correct – was bigger than what the German planes were using in 1940, and some have thought that if the French air arm had more time to get these in planes, they would have been a much greater challenge to the Luftwaffe. Anyway, I’m guessing the 13.2mm weapon in FTG’s post is the belt-fed version, which I’d never seen a photo of before. FTG, do you have any more info on that one?

[flamethrowerguy]

@Ardee

Erp! I might have misstated the caliber of the Hotchkiss in my post about the HMG on trails. I thought it 12.7mm, but FTG’s 13.2mm also sounds correct. I’ll have to check. I also have a photo of the same gun on a tripod for field use, but no photos of it being “used.” Interestingly, the French had just finished the development of a belt-fed version of the gun, for use with aircraft. It was considered a secret, as they didn’t want all the nations they had sold the magazine-fed version to (e.g., Japan) to know they might be able to convert it. IIRC, the caliber - whichever one is correct – was bigger than what the German planes were using in 1940, and some have thought that if the French air arm had more time to get these in planes, they would have been a much greater challenge to the Luftwaffe. Anyway, I’m guessing the 13.2mm weapon in FTG’s post is the belt-fed version, which I’d never seen a photo of before. FTG, do you have any more info on that one?

Unfortunately not, Ardee, just some general stuff saying that the french indeed were the leading nation in bigger caliber aircraft machine guns in the 1930’s and that this very model was used by the japanese as well. The book pays more attention to the earlier (WW1) french guns…

[Ardee]

Hats off to FTG: I was mistaken with the caliber of the MG with the trails: it’s 13.2mm.

In any case, since we seem to be on the subject of MGs, here’s a photo of Hotchkiss Mle 1922, as adopted by the French. The French didn’t use the gun in large numbers: mostly the guns went to colonial troops, as in the second photo. However, the gun did see considerable sales abroad, including Greece, and was also known under one or two other designations: e.g., Hocthkiss m 1926.

[ww11freak34]

these are cool guns