Georgia in Crisis: Major Fighting Erupts with Russia

Russia, Georgia troops battle on border
Hundreds of deaths alleged in region’s capital as tanks, aircraft deploy

MSNBC News Services
updated 12:46 p.m. ET, Fri., Aug. 8, 2008

TSKHINVALI, Georgia - Russia sent tanks and reportedly bombed Georgian air bases Friday after Georgia launched a major military offensive Friday to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia, threatening to ignite a broader conflict

Georgia’s pro-Western president said the two countries were at war, while the Bush administration urged both sides to reach a truce and said it was sending an envoy to the region.

South Ossetia’s rebel leader Eduard Kokoity claimed there were ”hundreds of dead civilians” in the region’s capital of Tskhinvali, Russia’s Interfax news agency quoted him as saying. The fighting is the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won de facto independence in a war that ended in 1992.

The roar of warplanes and the explosions of heavy shells were deafening around Tskhinvali. Many houses were ablaze.

“I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars,” said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. “It’s impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged.”

The main hospital in Tskhinvali had ceased functioning and ambulances were unable to reach wounded civilians, the International Red Cross reported.

“As a result of many hours of shelling from heavy guns, the town is practically destroyed,” Marat Kulakhmetov, commander of Russian peacekeepers in the territory, earlier told Interfax by telephone from Tskhinvali.

Russian artillery near capital
A senior Russian military commander said parts of Russia’s 58th army were outside the capital, where fighting raged between Russian-backed separatists and Georgian forces sent in on Friday to seize it.

“Georgian troop positions firing on Tskhinvali and peacekeepers were suppressed by artillery fire and tank units of the 58th Army, which are outside the capital of South Ossetia,” said Russian Army Col. Igor Konashenkov.

Ten Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded when their barracks were hit in Georgian shelling, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov. Russia has soldiers in South Ossetia as peacekeeping forces but Georgia alleges they back the separatists.

Georgia’s foreign ministry said Russian jets destroyed several Georgian military aircraft and inflicted unspecified casualties. It said that Russian aircraft also bombed another base in Bolnisi.

Rustavi 2 television says four people were killed and five others wounded at the Marneuli air base.

Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili said 150 Russian tanks, armored personnel carriers and other vehicles had entered South Ossetia from neighboring Russia.

“Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory,” Saakashvili told CNN, calling on Washington to help.

A White House spokesman said that President Bush and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin had discussed the situation in Beijing, where both are attending the Olympic Games.

Bush later pledged U.S. support for Georgia’s territorial integrity. “I want to reiterate on his behalf that the United States supports Georgia’s territorial integrity and we call for an immediate cease-fire,” White House spokeswoman Dana Perino said.

“We urge all parties, Georgians, South Ossetians and Russians, to de-escalate the tension and avoid conflict,” she added.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov accused Georgia of driving people from their homes. “We are receiving reports that a policy of ethnic cleansing was being conducted in villages in South Ossetia, the number of refugees is climbing, the panic is growing, people are trying to save their lives,” he said.

Georgia has allied itself with the West and is pushing for membership in NATO, a bid strongly backed by the Bush administration. It lies at the heart of a region emerging as a vital energy transit route.

World distracted by Olympics?
The fighting broke out when much of the world’s attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders were on their way to Beijing.

Saakashvili, who insists his government’s military action was provoked, noted the timing in an interview with CNN. “Most decision makers have gone for the holidays,” he said. “Brilliant moment to attack a small country.”

Speaking earlier on Georgian television, Saakashvili accused Russia of sending aircraft to bomb Georgian territory, which Russia denied.

Putin did, however, warn that the Georgian attack would draw retaliation and his defense ministry pledged to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.

Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. The country has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.

Georgia also has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the United States and Britain. On Friday, it said it would redeploy 1,000 of those troops to South Ossetia.

Georgia’s president said Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.

“A full-scale aggression has been launched against Georgia,” Saakashvili said in a televised statement. He also announced a full military mobilization with reservists being called into action.

Seven civilians were wounded when three Russian Su-24 jet bombers flew into Georgia and bombed the town of Gori and the villages of Kareli and Variani, Deputy Interior Minister Eka Sguladze said at a briefing.

She said that four Russian jets later bombed Gori, the hometown of Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, but that raid didn’t cause any casualties.

Some villagers fled into Russia.

“I saw them (the Georgians) shelling my village,” said Maria, who gave only her first name. She said she and other villagers spent the night in a field and then fled toward the Russian border as the fighting escalated.

Russian official criticizes ‘dirty adventure’
A senior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, Yuri Popov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings as misinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.

Russia’s defense ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a “dirty adventure.”

“Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience,” the ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site. “We will protect our peacekeepers and Russian citizens,” it said without elaboration.

Russia’s President Dmitry Medvedev later chaired a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, vowing that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.

“In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located,” Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. “We won’t allow the death of our compatriots to go unpunished.”

Saakashvili long has pledged to restore Tbilisi’s rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and built up ties with Moscow.

Worsening relations
Relations between Georgia and Russia worsened notably this year as Georgia pushed to join NATO and Russia dispatched additional peacekeeper forces to Abkhazia.

The Georgian attack came just hours after Saakashvili announced a unilateral cease-fire in a television broadcast late Thursday in which he also urged South Ossetian separatist leaders to enter talks on resolving the conflict.

Georgian officials later blamed South Ossetian separatists for thwarting the cease-fire by shelling Georgian villages in the area.

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

Link

I heard about this on BBC World… Think the Russians want to take back some of the Soviet land?

We’ll see if the russians just expell the georgian army from ossetia as nato did in kosovo with the serbs or if they push into the rest of georgia.

A bul…t.
Just Osetians did n’t wish to come back to Georgia.Who pretty genocided them in 1992-93.
I saw a couple of CNN reports about it.
Pure Cold war propogand.
The EuroNews is more or less objective.

Genocide you say?

No ,of course.
Osetians say it.

Well, after years of ceaseless provoking, Russia finally got their conflict. Georgia managed to stay cool surprisingly long time, considering they week after week endured attacks by Russian-backed separatists (some say terrorists) in their own country.

Remember: Almost all the countries in the world (except Russia) have admitted that South-Ossetia is legally part of Georgia and that they can do whatever they want in their own country, so the Russian decision to send their troops in Georgia equals Russia sending their troops to attack United States, France or any other independent country.

“Funniest” part is that when Chechenia wanted a little bit of independence Russia cruelly crushed it, and now that Ossetia wants some independence Russia supports it ;-D Chechenia should start another uprising because “clearly Russia wants each and every area to gain their independence” ;-D

Too bad for US/EU that the only pipeline not controlled by Russia/Iran goes through Georgia, and if Russia gets chokehold of it, it won’t be happy times for western world.

Remember that dictator, oh sorry, prime minister Putin immediately declared - without needing to consult Russian President or Russian Parliament - “a real war has broken out.” (no wonder most of the russians say in polls that they think Putin still has all the power)

It was also damn funny (and eating away Russia’s credibility) that even when Internet/tv/etc were filled with photos/footage of Russian aircrafts bombing Georgia, Russia still continued to claim that “we haven’t done any air attacks” %-D

After Russian President Medvedev said Russian troops are there to protect civilians, reports started to pour in from red cross members that Russians are bombing civilians (women, kids) in Poti, and Reuters staff reported that civilians (women, kids) are bombarded by Russians in Gor. I guess one could argue that after civilians are killed and buried six feet under they genuinely and finally are “protected”.

Pic: Georgian woman in Gor (faa-aaa-aaar away from war zone) experiences some Russian “civilian protection” in the form of airstrike.

_

Oh come on alepthh - this is TOO banal and TOO foolish to blame the ONLY Russia in the 20-years Georgian-Osetian bloody ethnical conflict.

Remember: Almost all the countries in the world (except Russia) have admitted that South-Ossetia is legally part of Georgia and that they can do whatever they want in their own country, so the Russian decision to send their troops in Georgia equals Russia sending their troops to attack United States, France or any other independent country.

Oh really?
So why almost all states of so called " the world" ( including the Finland) voted to tear the Serbian land into the pieces last year?Why “all the states” has admitted that Kosovo is an independent state, but Osetia is not?
Why the Osetia should be the part of the state that genocided them during the previous war?

It was also damn funny (and eating away Russia’s credibility) that even when Internet/tv/etc were filled with photos/footage of Russian aircrafts bombing Georgia, Russia still continued to claim that “we haven’t done any air attacks” %-D

Oh not internet but ONLY rushophobian part of it:(
The "internet " that repeat just the couple of photos of Georgian victims.
Kepp silence about 1600 killed civils in Tshinvaly and ethnical cleanings in the villages , cuptured by Georgian army. during last nigts and days unfair Georgian attack with “Grad” Jet Mortar, Su-25 and Howitzers.
The Europen channel Euronews has demonstrated all of that facts pretty clear including the rise of humanitartian catastrophe in Osetia.

Specially for whom have the “limited biased internet”.
So called “faa-aaaa-aaar Gori” is a place of Georgian military base and airfield, where from the GEorgian Su-25 taking off to bomb civils in the Tshinvaly.
The distance between the Tshinvaly and Gore is no more 30 km- very close for tactical aviation.

Man, seriously, I love Russia (ask any of my friends), I think that Russia had/has the best authors and artists in the world. And the sense of nostalgia, mmm… :slight_smile:

But I just cannot stand the way Russia often fails to output any fact based news/information/etc.

So if it’s totally ok for state responsible for hundreds of thousands of people (Russia) to produce out-of-this-world information by pretty insanely selective methods, why cannot I do the same on a smaller scale? ;-D

It’s also seems that Russia really just don’t care about the poor South-Ossetia at all, every time South-Ossetia request something (like recognizing South-Ossetia as an independent country), Russia just crushes their hopes, and Putin starts to explain how he really really would like to add the South-Ossetia area to the mighty Russian empire. In my eyes that’s not caring about (South)-Ossetia, that’s about seizing more land to your own empire.

And sure, Georgia has done bad things in South Ossetia (just like Russia has done bad things in South Ossetia, and just like South Ossetia has done bad things to Georgians), but too bad that not too many outside Russian state-owned news stations seem to have noticed the “ethnical cleanings” - sometimes even not those living in the very villages in the very moment when Russia claims that they are under ethnical cleanings.

You see the problem here: when information provided by Russia has been proved to be total bllsht so many times during the recent years, it just completely erases any credibility about anything they say.

And about Serbia:

Huge number of free countries in the world got enough reliable information from hundreds of different sources about what was going on (really bad things) in the Serbia, and warned them over and over and over and over again, year after year. Serbia didn’t listen. Before those really bad things, world just didn’t care about Kosovo wanting to be independent because it was legally part of Serbia, and they could do anything with Kosova as long as it wasn’t direct killing process. They crossed the line, many times, badly, and everybody (in the free countries) knew about it. So they (eventually) paid the price.

But hey, I totally understand that Serbians feel pissed. And of unrelated note: I think they are the country with most talented teams in ball-and-skills-related-sports, like soccer, basketball, etc.

But here’s the difference: South-Ossetia have requested many times to be independent - and Russia has always been totally against that. Let me make it clear here: RUSSIA IS AGAINST INDEPENDENT SOUTH-OSSETIA. Totally. And it seems that Russia is against their independence now too because they just won’t acknowledge their independence, no matter how many times South-Ossetia requests it. And South-Ossetia just moments ago requested Russia to acknowledge them, and Russia totally skipped that request immediately. So what the hell Russia is doing there? Protecting their citizens, come on…

There are so many (foreign/decent/intelligence) people in South-Ossetia that if Georgia really started to mass murder people there, several countries would get several reports about it. And they would act against Georgia - just the like they did against Serbia. But nothing like that is reported - except by the very shaky Russian sources - nobody else seems to be seeing it even if they live there. So, no reason for any country on this planet to attack Georgia.

One difference between Russia and many many many countries is this: In Finland, France, US, UK, EU, etc… you can request money from authorities to write a book about how those authorities suck, and you have a decent chance to get funds. Any system which gives money to a person who wants to beat the hell out of that very system, has to be a very strong system. And in those kind of systems, information (for the majority) tends to be correct, because outright lies are fiercely discredited. Couple of years ago several Finnish groups thinking that “EU really sucks”, asked and received funds from EU to travel to Bryssels to demonstrate publicly against EU. I do not see that kind of stuff happening in Russia, where those who criticize the system/Putin/etc way too often end up dead or in prison.

_

I agree with this. I’ve read in the “biased Western media” that it was the Georgians that launched an all out artillery strike on Ossetian separatists AFTER both parties agreed to a ceasefire…

Oh really?
So why almost all states of so called " the world" ( including the Finland) voted to tear the Serbian land into the pieces last year?Why “all the states” has admitted that Kosovo is an independent state, but Osetia is not?
Why the Osetia should be the part of the state that genocided them during the previous war?

Oh not internet but ONLY rushophobian part of it:(
The "internet " that repeat just the couple of photos of Georgian victims.
Kepp silence about 1600 killed civils in Tshinvaly and ethnical cleanings in the villages , cuptured by Georgian army. during last nigts and days unfair Georgian attack with “Grad” Jet Mortar, Su-25 and Howitzers.
The Europen channel Euronews has demonstrated all of that facts pretty clear including the rise of humanitartian catastrophe in Osetia.

But the Russian gov’t seems to be be continuing the carnage and expanding the scope of the attacks well beyond the Ossetia territory in dispute…

And I was wondering what the origin of the charge of genocide against the Georgians originates…

Hey, look what this airsoft forum sent me, this is extreamly wierd, BTW it involves this so its not off topic of the off topic topic…you know wat i mean.

Hello RifleMan20,

As you probably already know (if you’ve been around long enough) here at AirsoftForum.com (ASF), we don’t normally allow political discussions as they are usually heated, pointless, and circular. I also appreciate the fact that many of you are too young to even care about world news or politics, so we normally don’t comment or alert you of issues unless they are major.

Additionally, we announced the launch of our new Civil Defense website a few weeks ago specifically for the purpose of helping people prepare for terrorist attacks and other disasters. If you missed that announcement for some reason, here it is:
http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/Airsoft-Game-You-t119402.html

You should take a look at the above topic if you have any interest in world news, being prepared for terrorist attacks, or any other disasters like I am about to tell…

Today is 08/08/08 and the beginning of the Olympics in China as most of you know, but strangely enough and shortly after the commencing of the Olympics this morning, Russia has began a full out attack on the country of Georgia just north of Iran and Iraq.

This is not a joke and pretty serious so I implore you pay attention to what is going on over there as this could very well be the beginning of WWIII. Now before a lot of you start in with the conspiracy crap, stop to educate yourself before speaking on stuff you have no idea about.

The United States has thousands of Marines, Army and Special Forces over there already supporting allied forces. Russia has already told us, NATO and UN Forces (3 months ago) to back off and pull our troops out of the surrounding areas or they will use preemptive nuclear strikes against our allied forces.

This is an all-out war with US backed allied forces fighting Russia and is pretty serious business and will most likely affect us here in the USA both directly and indirectly as this escalates.

The building conflict over there has been in the news for months with little innuendo news stories popping up here and there about how the US wants to go into Iran (which is backed by Russia and China). We have also been hearing how Israel (which is backed by the USA) and Iran have been in a pissing match for some time now and that is also heating up over there and we could very possibly go to war with Iran in the next few months, but then today ‘all of hell is breaking loose’ over there in Georgia, just north of Iran.

As I said earlier, this is not a joke and I encourage you to pay attention to what’s happening over there. But if you couldn’t care less, that’s cool too – just delete this email now. I’m simply trying to get a message out to the thousands of people who do care and if you’re not one of them – that’s fine – don’t bite my head off for sending you this – I’m sending it to everyone :slight_smile:

I sent a similar email (as this one) to our 300+ YCD members a couple of hours ago and that is where we will be discussing this topic. Normally when I send out an ASF announcement, I allow you to click on a link that sends you to the topic so you can reply on the ASF website, but not this time. There will not be any discussion about this on ASF as we don’t discuss politics or world news there unless it relates to Airsoft in some way and this doesn’t. If you want to talk about this or make a comment, please continue this discussion on the YCD website: http://www.yourcivildefense.com/board/index.php?showtopic=300

In closing I want to say thanks for taking the time to read through this. I will not be receiving or responding to emails at this time, so if you want to get a message to me about this, you must post your message on the board as I have not checked my email in months.

Please turn on CNN right now to hear what’s being reported about this in our main stream news. Please also tune in www.WTPRN.com (We The People Radio Network) to hear the alternative news. You can also find other alternative news such as the BBC and other outside sources if you look for it.

Please empower yourself with knowledge of what is going on over there. If you can hang out in front of your PC for awhile or spend some time on the telephone, please tune in WTPRN for alternative news that isn’t being reported here in the USA. You can listen by either telephone or internet: http://wtprn.com/listen.shtml or listen the live broadcast via telephone: 1-512-485-9010

Belfast Telegraph, World News:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/georgia-russia-has-invaded-and-we-are-under-attack-13934899.html

CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html?eref=ib_topstories

Other sources via Google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=russia+attack+georgia

This is a VERY Big Deal – Please pay attention. If you would like to comment on this, please click the following link to continue this discussion at YourCivilDefense.com:
http://www.yourcivildefense.com/board/index.php?showtopic=300

HOWEVER - PLEASE KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE POSTING NONSENSE, (you will only do that by researching both sides of the issue). Otherwise, don’t be surprised if knee-jerk posts or replies are simply deleted without explanation.

-admin

Talk about paranoid. And any Russians on here, I don’t believe much about this letter so don’t think wrong.

Spot on.

According to our Spiegel magazine it seems as if the Russians actually do have other intentions than just defending the Ossetians, they seem to have ground troops in purely georgian territory now. Sorry to tell it to you Chevan, but now you’re officially the evil ones in this mess, no matter who started the actual shooting this time.

Yes, “it seems as if”… But who knows… maybe…
Can you specify which territories were mentioned in Spiegel?

Whom of your frined might i ask - just if the Fennica:)He loves russia i know:)
OK, if serious, do you really think that to DEFEND your citizents from enemy is a nostalgia ?

But I just cannot stand the way Russia often fails to output any fact based news/information/etc.

So if it’s totally ok for state responsible for hundreds of thousands of people (Russia) to produce out-of-this-world information by pretty insanely selective methods, why cannot I do the same on a smaller scale? ;-D

you can of cource.
But please do not pretend that this is ONLY true poit, OK:)

It’s also seems that Russia really just don’t care about the poor South-Ossetia at all, every time South-Ossetia request something (like recognizing South-Ossetia as an independent country), Russia just crushes their hopes, and Putin starts to explain how he really really would like to add the South-Ossetia area to the mighty Russian empire. In my eyes that’s not caring about (South)-Ossetia, that’s about seizing more land to your own empire.

OK good point.
I/m agree with you .
Indeed Putin refuse a to recognize S. Osetia on political resaons.
Becouse as may be you know the USA has supported Georgian in this matter ( Georgia claim this is OURS own territory).
But i think today something has changed.
Will see.

And sure, Georgia has done bad things in South Ossetia (just like Russia has done bad things in South Ossetia, and just like South Ossetia has done bad things to Georgians), but too bad that not too many outside Russian state-owned news stations seem to have noticed the “ethnical cleanings” - sometimes even not those living in the very villages in the very moment when Russia claims that they are under ethnical cleanings.

Right point , but not full.
You pretty right about genocied -it was MUTUAL.
But also know in Serbia was a MUTUAL genocide of Serbs and Kosovars.
But tell me honestly -how many state-owned mass news stations noticed the “ethnical cleansing” or crimes against their civils in Serbia?

You see the problem here: when information provided by Russia has been proved to be total bllsht so many times during the recent years, it just completely erases any credibility about anything they say.

I do understand you point.
You can not trust to it.
But say me please honestly ( again) can you trust the CNN for instance that “provided a truly sources” that in Iraq there are a MDW in 2003 ?
Hardly.
But why do you think that Their lie should be better the Russian one?

And about Serbia:

Huge number of free countries in the world got enough reliable information from hundreds of different sources about what was going on (really bad things) in the Serbia, and warned them over and over and over and over again, year after year. Serbia didn’t listen. Before those really bad things, world just didn’t care about Kosovo wanting to be independent because it was legally part of Serbia, and they could do anything with Kosova as long as it wasn’t direct killing process. They crossed the line, many times, badly, and everybody (in the free countries) knew about it. So they (eventually) paid the price.

OK.
They have paid fo bad things they did.Right
But tell me again - Georgia who took the obligation to to use the military force to solve the Ethnical and territorial problem ?
Was it good thing to start the solution from Mortar fire on City full of sleeping peoples?
Was it right to attack the battalion of Peacekeepers ( about 500 mans )armed by AK and light armored cars with Tanks and Howitzers?
Was it right to execute wounded soldiers?
Hardly.
So they have made a lot of nasty things.
And would have paid for that.

But hey, I totally understand that Serbians feel pissed. And of unrelated note: I think they are the country with most talented teams in ball-and-skills-related-sports, like soccer, basketball, etc.

Yes they have a talent teams… but dumn they have no right to own their land, right.

But here’s the difference: South-Ossetia have requested many times to be independent - and Russia has always been totally against that. Let me make it clear here: RUSSIA IS AGAINST INDEPENDENT SOUTH-OSSETIA. Totally. And it seems that Russia is against their independence now too because they just won’t acknowledge their independence, no matter how many times South-Ossetia requests it. And South-Ossetia just moments ago requested Russia to acknowledge them, and Russia totally skipped that request immediately. So what the hell Russia is doing there? Protecting their citizens, come on…

Again all this right points.
But ,for sake of true, why you don’t wish to ask S.ossetians what to hell do russians here?
Why do you use the westrn media as a “source” instead to learn the real oppinion of Osetians?
And how many Osetians want back to Georgia on your mind?

There are so many (foreign/decent/intelligence) people in South-Ossetia that if Georgia really started to mass murder people there, several countries would get several reports about it. And they would act against Georgia - just the like they did against Serbia. But nothing like that is reported - except by the very shaky Russian sources - nobody else seems to be seeing it even if they live there. So, no reason for any country on this planet to attack Georgia.

Oh yea, so tell me just single foreign/decent/intelligence groups/here here?
Why we didn’t listen ANY their reports from Osetia?
And how many reporters or journalists have been sended to Osetia since 8 august?

One difference between Russia and many many many countries is this: In Finland, France, US, UK, EU, etc… you can request money from authorities to write a book about how those authorities suck, and you have a decent chance to get funds.

But tell me please why in France ( and in some other states of EU) the special laws that prosecute the revisionist then?

Any system which gives money to a person who wants to beat the hell out of that very system, has to be a very strong system. And in those kind of systems, information (for the majority) tends to be correct, because outright lies are fiercely discredited. Couple of years ago several Finnish groups thinking that “EU really sucks”, asked and received funds from EU to travel to Bryssels to demonstrate publicly against EU. I do not see that kind of stuff happening in Russia, where those who criticize the system/Putin/etc way too often end up dead or in prison.
_

Right you can demonstrate - and WHAT WILL DEPEND ON YOUR VOICE or Books?
The Globalisation is the sort of totalitarism , isn’t it?
We have alot of different oppinion and critic points of Putin-it is not forbidden especialy in Internet.( you simply can’t forbid or bann it)
Besides, do you accidentally know, what was happend with Georgian opposition leaders last years?

This a Spiegel article from 09-August, Sat.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,571079,00.html

About 1,000 people died on both sides in the ensuing two-and-a-half-year war, and tens of thousands of Georgians were driven out of South Ossetia. Then former Russian President Boris Yeltsin and Gamsakhurdia’s successor, former Russian Foreign Minister Eduard Shevardnadze, signed a ceasefire agreement. Although that agreement was occasionally violated, it remained largely intact until last week.

Faced with this prospect, Medvedev will continue what Putin once began. The former Kremlin chief repeatedly stressed that a “precedent” was set when the United States, Great Britain and other NATO states recognized the independence of the former Serbian province of Kosovo. It was at that point that Moscow reasoned that it could claim the same right for the South Ossetians and the Abkhazians, another group seeking independence from Georgia, and it demonstratively expanded its support for the two separatist provinces. At the same time, a speedy conquest of Tskhinvali became even less of a reality for Saakashvili.

In July, 1,000 US soldiers and 600 Georgian infantrymen participated in an exercise dubbed “Immediate Response.” The official objective was to prepare for deployment in Afghanistan, but the true goal was to fight Russian volunteers who, in case of a serious conflict, would come to the aid of the separatist regimes in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

This is precisely what could happen now. On Friday evening, there were reports that the first Russian patriots were headed for South Ossetia – at a time when the world was still puzzled over what could have prompted the Georgian president to launch his military strike.

“It’s not about Georgia anymore. It’s about America, its values,” the Georgian president told CNN in a live broadcast on Friday. "We are a freedom-loving nation that is right now under attack. "

But it doesn’t appear that Saakashvili is entirely blameless in the matter.

Anyway… every side is playing dirty game… I do not even know what to think… Seems like the only choise is the choise between four evils…

Don’t worry Drake , i understand what do you mean.
Now the Russian are the “evil side”.
The bss,ds killed our peacekepeers, our sitizents in Tshinvali ( many of civils here have the russians pasports) and then they cry : “Help, russians kick our ass”
Do you know what i think.
Somethimes you HAVE TO BE evil, purely for good aims in future.
Remember Israel attacked Lebanon 2005?
With no formal reasons?The Army of Lebanon did not attacked them, right.
But the GEorgian army has attacked us.
And what - did somebody complain to the “Evil Israel”?:slight_smile:
You see , the bad job is a good job indeed.
The “War with terrorism” is hard thing, and i don’t think we have to use only the UK/US concept of it(agains the Muslims terrorists) , becouse the Georgian army behave like a group of terrorists.

To put it bluntly, the Russians have a 100% track record of not deserving the benefit of the doubt. This is also not the first time that they have used the “Sudetenland pretext”, so why should they deserve the benefit of the doubt now?

benefit of the doubt?
Doubt about what exactly?

Do you have perception of what is going on there? How whould you explain what is happening?