Going to toilet at 30,000 feet?

World War II General WWII Discussion
#1

Yeah, there’s plenty of opportunity here for the sort of infantile poo and fart comments in which I sometimes engage, but a comment in another thread about removing human waste by air from a rocky battlefield made me wonder what happened up in the sky.

Given the length of bomber flights over occupied Europe and the attendant circumstances which might have induced a bit of bowel action, what provision was made for doing poo in long range bombers in WWII?

As for doing wee, I’m not sure I’d want to be taking my wedding tackle out of a heated suit at 30,000 feet and way below freezing point for a pee. Or exposing my bottom for a poo.

How were these issues dealt with?

#2

I have no idea, but I certainly would have gone easy on the coffee at the mess hall pre-mission meal!

#3

That is a good question, I’ve often wondered that myself. Maybe Panzerknacker might know… he’s done research and posted threads on fighters and bombers of that era.

#4

See, this is exactly the sort of comment which brings out the fart-loving child in me (which resides in all men :wink: ) and distracts us from finding out what bomber crews did when they had to do it.

That said, I would have kept off the beans before the mission. (Actually, I reckon anyone who could eat just before going on a mission was doing well, and especially well if they didn’t lose it top or bottom somewhere along the way.)

As for the beans, a nice piece of graffiti I used to drive past said:

Heinz Meanz Beanz
Beanz Meanz Fartz!

#5

Elsan chemical toilet as fitted to Lancaster bombers.

#6

From RifleMan20’s link (http://ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?p=143688&posted=1#post143688):

A number of air crewmen died of farts. (ascending to 20,000 ft. in an un-pressurized aircraft causes intestinal gas to expand 300%!)

#7

A number of air crewmen died of farts.

Did they die from over inhalation of gases?

#8

Here is a first hand account of dealing with the elsan on missions.

I wonder how many people remember the Elsan? perhaps I should
say, how many people who used one can ever forget?
The Elsan was the portable metal toilet used in bomber aircraft
and it was something that was hated by air crew and ground crew
alike; the air crew because they had to use it, and the ground crew
because they had to empty it. It was a horror.

The name Elsan is something of a mystery but I’ve heard it said,
and this seems to make sense, that the “El” and the “san” in military
parlance stood for “lavatory-sanitary.” However, it was anything
but sanitary, believe me, a veteran user of the Elsan.
While we were flying in rough air, this devil’s convenience often
shared its contents with the floor of the aircraft, the walls, the ceiling
and, sometimes, a bit remained in the container itself.
It doesn’t take much imagination to picture what it was like,
trying to combat fear and airsickness, struggling to remove enough
flying clothing in cramped quarters, and at the same time trying to
use the cursed Elsan. If it wasn’t an invention of the devil, it certainly
must have been one foisted on us by the enemy.
When seated in frigid cold amid the cacophony of roaring engines
and whistling air, away from the war for what should have
been one of life’s peaceful moments, the occupant had a chance to
fully ponder the miserable condition of his life.
This loathsome creation invariably overflowed on long trips and
in turbulence was always prone to bathe the nether regions of the
user.
There are those today who may decry the inconvenience of the
long-gone outdoor “biffy” but in comparison to the Elsan, the
outhouse is heaven on earth.
I have yet to come across one of these torture chambers in a
museum, and I think it is a mistake that at least one is not included. It
is one of the true reminders to me that war is hell.

#9

I think Ive seen some toilets on Japanese Betty Bombers.
I think it just opens up or something. It was only a picture.

#10

Is this a joke or is it true?
I am wondering about gas because on my trip next mth I want to bring lighters in my checked luggae as souvenirs and they say its prohibitted. Is it because the pressure will make them explode? I bought 25 cool bic lighters with glass casino dice inside the fuel. I want to pack them in my checked luggage. Do you think they will explode? This comment about gas had me thinking. Any enjineers out there that may know the answer.??:oops:

#11

Extremely unlikely - the lighters are inside the pressurised hull of the aircraft, which will be kept at a cabin altitude of no higher than 3,000m (usually less) - a pressure of 70% of atmospheric. That’s still a significant pressure differential (3 tonnes per square metre), but in the grand scheme of things that isn’t really very much.

Far more likely is that they are concerned about the gas leaking into the aircraft in flight. The gas being a flammable liquid is capable of causing a significant fire or explosion within the cargo hold if it catches fire, and that is sufficient reason to ban them.
Barometers are banned from aircraft, incidentally, because the Mercury type could leak into the aircraft. Aluminium and Mercury react very rapidly to form a weak amalgam, and if that happens to an aircraft there is essentially no way of repairing it safely - it has to be scrapped.

#12

Thanks!!

#13

Why can’t the site of the damage be identified and repaired with a fresh skin panel, structural member, or whatever?

#14

Two reasons. Firstly, the stuff gets everywhere - it’s almost impossible to be certain that you’ve got everything. Secondly, a damaged panel looks an awful lot like an undamaged one, but the strength is radically reduced. Inspection of panels like that is extremely expensive, so unless it’s an extremely valuable aircraft it will probably be cheaper to scrap it.

#15

Well, additionally to the Elsan, I wouldn’t be surprised if they also wore something equivalent to adult diapers?

Race Drivers often simply pee into their overalls during races, so why shouldn’t airmen in bombers/fighters?

As for poop, I guess you shouldn’t eat anything before the mission, and if you still have to - well either us an Elsan or remove your Name-Tag before you give your Overall to cleaning:D

#16

Hello, y’all!

Interesting topic… one question that I’m sure has been pondered for some time but now due to the world wide web the answer is just at your fingertips.

A chemical toilet is pretty much standard equipment for US bombers B-17, B-24, and B-29. To quote the B-17F “Erection and Maintenance” manual, under miscellaneous equipment: “A chemical type toilet with disposable container is installed in the rear fuselage compartment adjacent to the main entrance door.”

I’ve read that US bomber crews were well fed, but I imagine stress, fear, and nervousness probably did a good job of making airborne commode use an infrequent operation during combat missions.

In case anyone is interested, here is a link to the B-17F Erection and Maintenance manual in PDF: http://b17panels.com/id23.html

Russ
FAA Airman
Proud son of Rose and Wes

#17

Over the Xmas period I was in a library thumbing through a book of WWII reminiscences. There was a reminscence by a US bomber (can’t recall which type) crew member where he expressed the disgust all crew members apparently felt for using the toilet in flight, not least because if the aircraft was tossed around the receptacle invariably tipped over and at best caused a huge stink and at worst covered come crew members with its contents. The thing is, he referred to it as an ‘empty ammo can’. Maybe the crews put a makeshift one up forward because the installed one near the entry door took them too far away from their posts?

#18

i heard somewhere that b17s had an onboard craper. is that true?

#19

Yes, and full details are provided in the post two above yours.

Reviewing your recent posts, I have come to the conclusion that you are in fact a troll in the mould of Aly J (although most likely not the same person as the IP addresses are different and of a type unlikely to be spoofed).
Consider this your final warning before you take another extended holiday from this forum. I consider it frankly impossible for anyone to be as stupid as you pretend to be and still be capable of using the internet. Hence, what you are doing is purely and simply trolling, and will not be tolerated.

#20

Anyone still curious about the original question might wish to read Black Thursday, I believe the one by Martin Caidin (there can’t be too many books with the same title!). The book is a detailed history of the costly US air raid on the ball-bearings plants in Schweinfurt. Somewhere therein, the author describes the potty issue, and I could look it up if the interest remains.

As I recall, everybody relieved themselves immediately before boarding, and there were no “facilities” on the B-17s. Cabins were neither heated or pressurized. Flight crews wore various layers of protective clothing against the cold; IIRC, above a certain altitude, bare skin would freeze almost instantly. And once in the combat zone, no one dared leave their post even momentarily: everybody’s lives were at risk. Again, IIRC, if you really needed to go, you went - in your pants. I believe there was some discussion of hypothermia and other health risks resulting from such: even with all the clothing, the urine might freeze. Given the nature of combat and such dangers, I would think every airmen would try to limit fluid consumption during and just before flights.