Just to start another debate…What do you think the greatest battle of WW2 was? Size doesnt matter just what you think and why.
It would probably be something in the Pacific…Iwo Jima maybe.
i would say battle of kursk, the number of tanks involve is just scary
Kursk probably. I think I heard somewhere that the German tiger machine gunners got shell shock from shooting all the Russians running directly in front of their tanks. Basically the Russians were dead either way those poor bastards, if they didn’t rush the tank they’d get shot by their own guys for desertion and if they rushed it they’d get slaughtered.
Tricky one to decide, very debatable. I know I know im not very origional, but id have to say DDay, youll be surprised in all the planning that went to make that succeed. For instance, the reason why the Germans did not fully make a counter attack was because they thought that it was a diverson, congrats to great intelligence by the British. And the unified effort by the Special forces to secure main bridges etc.
Kursk was a great battle, but two battles at Prokhorovka (2 days later after Kursk battle) and at Baranovichi ( Jule, 1941) was greatest. Numbers of tanks using in them was be more thn eve Kursk…
dont forget normandy too, it would be much intense if rommel put his tank group in there with good air defense
This is kind of a hard one. I had to narrow it down to Battles Midway, Wake Island, Kursk and Stalingrad. But ill have to say for the moment that the battle of Midway is one of the greatest battles.
Ill give it a few more days and let some more people get some posts in here and then ill start a Poll on the battles like I did with the commanders.
If by ‘greatest battle’ you mean the most important in it’s effect on the war, then I’ll have to consider the Russian Front only. Only Germany for the Axis had any chance to win. Even if Japan had won Midway and wiped out the three U.S. carriers, they would have only gained time. In November of 1942, the U.S. commissioned ELEVEN essex-class carriers, and the war for Japan was lost at that point. America’s industrial output was ten times that of Japan, and the japanese army could not get at America’s industrial heartland, with it’s army tied up in China.
On the Russian front, where the war was decided, Germany only had a brief chance of victory during the first summer, because of Russia’s greater industrial base, resources and 3-to-1 superiority in manpower. In order to win, Germany must take the Moscow area by October, which breaks up the Soviet railnet that runs north-south west of the Volga, brings Germany to at least parity in industrial capacity, and ends supply and communication with the Southwest Front in Kiev and the Northwest Front in Leningrad. It would force both of these fronts to retreat, because the enemy would be across their lines of supply and communication. By moving a panzer group south along the Volga from the Moscow-Gorki area to the area east of Kursk, the Germans would threaten to completely cut off all Russian forces retreating from Kiev.
This was the original plan of Barbarossa, but Hitler changed the plan in
November of 1940 to make Leningrad the first priority. Army Group Center was to help Army Group North take Leningrad, then they could move on Moscow. Hitler didn’t understand that Leningrad lost it’s strategic value once Moscow was taken, as did Kiev. As it happened, Army Group North moved so swiftly in June/July of '41 that Hitler decided not to interfere with Army Group Center. The result was the second ‘leap’ of the panzers to Smolensk. Meanwhile, in the south, Hitler forced Von Rundstedt to use his panzers in a direct assault at the teeth of Southwest Front’s defenses before Kiev, rather than using a wide envelopment from the southern end of the front. This wasted too much time, and Hitler became impatient with Kiev still resisting in August. He wanted a continuous front north-to-south with no exposed right flank. He didn’t understand that, in the age of blitzkreig, as long as you held the initative, and kept the enemy off-balance with your swift envelopments, flanks didn’t matter that much.
Sending Guderian with Panzer Army 2 south from Smolensk on the Moscow highway to aid Von Runstedt at Kiev cost the Gemans their only chance at victory. If Guderian and Hoth had been allowed to attack Moscow in August-September, they would have succeeded, because the Russian forces could not move fast enough to form a solid front. In early August you had 65 Geman divisions facing 28 Russian on the Moscow highway. This situation only lasted for two weeks; then Russian reserves began to fill the gaps. Instead, while Guderian went south, Hoth and the
infantry cooled their heels for 7 WEEKS, giving the Russians more than enough time to construct their defenses.
While the battle for Smolensk was a difficult one for the Germans, it did not cause them to wait seven weeks. It was the protracted defense of the
Southwest Front that caused the fatal ( and unnecessary ) decision by Hitler to divert Guderian and make Hoth wait. Hitler’s interference in the initial disposition of Von Runstedt’s forces at the start of Barbarossa created the delay that caused Hitler to make his fatal decision.
Therefore, in terms of cause and effect, the battle for Kiev had the greatest importance for World War II. The subsequent battles for Moscow, Rzhev, Kharkov, Stalingrad and Kurst were all important; but only as to how long the war would last. The Germans couldn’t seriously threaten Moscow after early October '41, and therfore couldn’t win. Only if Hitler had given priority to develpment of the A-Bomb prior to Barbarossa would the latter battles have mattered.
Ya I wouldnt say that the battle of Midway was a turning point.
I said blockade of Leningrad, battle of Stalingrad and fight for Normandy!!!
I like EL ALAMEIN,but D-DAY in normandy was the most important battle,i think.
I cant list one, but id go with, D-Day, Kursk, Stalingrad.
Leningrad wouldnt be called much of a battle. The German army just basically starved Leningrad, and cut out all water, lights etc. Stalin could of saved the whole population, but he didnt want to air lift all that food, he wanted to use it for military purposes.
When war made a question, answer might be very heavy. But Stalin did it. The German has an full air superiority in that region. Main transort ship of Red Army was an Li-2( copy of American C-47), good plane but it couldn’t escape from germans fighters. The support to blocaded Leningrad with air - would be mistake. Only losses of transport planes.
Yes it was a turning point. And it was a great battle. 2 sides pretty evenly matched and a clear victor. The battles on the Russian front didnt always have a clear victor after the turn at Stalingrad. Just mainly great battles that usually ended up in favor of the superior Russian might.
Wake Island was also a great battle. The Americans did a wonderful job holding off a superior Japanese task force but did in the end were forced to surrender coz of a retard and to cautious Admiral that could have relieved them.
My present choice of Midway may change when i do the poll but thats it for now. It was hard not to pick the battle of Stalingrad. And I mean the encirclement of the German 6th Army mainly. This was the Midway of the Eastern Front.
D-day and Elalamein were great as well but dont think they had the effect on the war that Midway and Stalingrad did. After Stalingrad …even if the allies didnt open up another front I think the best the Germans could hope for is a peaceful conclusion there but we know Stalin wasnt going to go for that.
[quote="Gen. Sandworm:
My present choice of Midway may change when i do the poll but thats it for now. It was hard not to pick the battle of Stalingrad. And I mean the encirclement of the German 6th Army mainly. This was the Midway of the Eastern Front.
D-day and Elalamein were great as well but dont think they had the effect on the war that Midway and Stalingrad did. After Stalingrad …even if the allies didnt open up another front I think the best the Germans could hope for is a peaceful conclusion there but we know Stalin wasnt going to go for that.[/quote]
So…the conversation IS about the EFFECT on the war of a great battle.
I was beginning to wonder. Midway stopped Japan’s offensives, and
Stalingrad marked the high water mark of German conquest, as everyone knows. BUT… If Japan had won Midway, they still would have lost; and if
Germany had won Stalingrad, they still would not have won the war. As I
mentioned before, America commissioned eleven carriers five months after Midway, so Midway, great as it was, merely changed the timetable
for American victory. Similarly, a German victory at Stalingrad would have
allowed them to continue south towards the Baku oil fields; but the reality
of the situation was that they were overextended- using inferior Rumanian, Italian and Hungarian forces to hold a very long front. Meanwhile, in the year since Barbarossa, Soviet total mobilization had
raised over 360 divisions, and the factories in the Urals had built thousands of T-34’s! Probably the most important ultimate effect of a German victory at Stalingrad would be a delay of the inevitable- with Patton’s 3rd Army taking Berlin instead of Zhukov and Konev.
Your right and wrong…if the Japan had won the battle of midway it would have bought them alot more time. You have to remember that America was fighting a two front war. At this point Japan would have completely smashed our Pacfic naval forces. We would then have to transfer much needed ships from the Atlantic to help resupply. Yes America production would replenish the forces there but Japan could have really used that time to strenghten there grip in the pacific. So who knows exactly what would have happened. America probably still would have won but would have taken much longer.
Your also right that a German vicotory at Stalingrad would not give the Germans victory but would have greatly helped. I just find the battle interesting and dont see how the Germans allowed such a disaster to happen. Anyone could have see what the Russians where going to do and Hitler had an idea that they might do that but didnt do much about it. Nonetheless the Russians did a great job encirlcing the Germans and then holding off the releif effort.
If America lost the Battle of Midway then, it will only take time before America would recover. They had most of there navy in the pacific, and the British and Australians were there too. The Japanese navy can hardly make any more battleships and aircraft carriers, after their fleet is destroyed. So only matter of time.
Now if Germany took Stalingrad, not only would Moscow be in danger, but the oil fields would be in German control. They also had control over Lenningrad, so thats two ways of advancing to Moscow. Stalin knew that if he lost Stalingrad, it was most likely that he would fall from power. Hitler also knew, that if he lost Stalingrad, the Germans would have no chance of taking Russia. Also, If the allies lost El Alamein then it would really be hard to recover from that, as alot of commonwealth forces gave all their forces for that battle, and Africa might of been lost. If the Allies lost D-Day then it would be much harder to take Germany. Now, Id have to say that the three dicisive battles would be Stalingrad El Alamein, and D-day. If Germany beat all of these battles, then that would do terrible things to the Allies, theyd possibly be beat. If Hitler won one but lost two, there was still hope, and therefore you getting the picture. You might also want to add the Battle of Britain, as if that was lost, who would of known the outcome, since it was early in the war. And Hitler might not of been fighting two fronts after all.
Hm… Not think so about Stalingrad. The strategic position of Stalingrad wasn’t such great. After such battle german troops wouldn’t able to attack in the Moscow direction, and oil plants can be used under constant fire of BM-13. But this town had name of Stalin. Primary, that was question of pride to both sides. Stalingrad was a simbol of the Stalin’s power.
Yes, greatest achievment of communist power. But more important than oil and Moscow, Stalin would have fallen from power, as Stalin new, and historians.