Greek Fire

Greek Fire was a kind of flamethrower weapon. The fleet of King Ihor (or Igor) of Kiev encountered Greek Fire during his 941 A.D. invasion of Byzantium according to the RUS (not Russian) chronicler in the Primary Chronicle. The Chronicler wrote: “The Greeks possess something like the lightning in the heavens and they released it and burned us. For this reason we did not conquer them.” However, according to tradition, King Oleh in 907 A.D. did mount his shield on the Gates of mighty Constantinople.

http://www.infoukes.com/history/inventions/

GREEK FIRE

“Greek fire” was a weapon employed by the Byzantines, and its nature remains as mysterious today as it was in the 7th century when it was first unleashed. It was instrumental in saving Constantinople from invasion by Muslim fleets in 678 and again in 718. Such a veil of secrecy surrounded the weapon that, in time, the Byzantines themselves forgot how to produce it.

Incendiary weapons were nothing new in warfare in the Mediterranean world. Naphtha, a petroleum distillate, was known in the 4th century BCE. In combat on both land and sea, petroleum, sulphur, bitumen, and resin had been used since early Christian times. But Greek fire was more insidious. It was projected upon enemy forces in the fashion of a flamethrower. Contemporary accounts frequently mention the mixture being discharged from tubes mounted on the prows of Byzantine ships. Like modern napalm, it adhered to whatever it struck, and could not be extinguished with water.

The Byzantine historian Theophanes credits its development to a man called Calinicus, a Syrian refugee from the Arab conquest. We still do not know its precise chemical composition, nor do we know exactly how it was ignited. It may have been a mixture of distilled petroleum (similar to modern gasoline) that was thickened with resins and sulphur. This would have prevented it from being quickly extinguished or washed away by water. The Chinese possessed a similar weapon in the 10th century that was ignited with gunpowder – something unknown to the Byzantines in the 7th century. One hypothesis suggests that the Byzantines stored the mixture in vats and projected it with a type of force pump of the sort attributable to the Hellenistic inventor Ctesibius. An 8th century account speaks of iron shields that sheltered the men who operated the bronze “flamethrowers,” and the author also describes the thunderous noise that the weapon emitted as it discharged. This noise has led some scholars to speculate that the Byzantines may have indeed known how to make gunpowder at that time, but this is by no means certain. The exact nature of the weapon was a state secret known only to a small circle of Byzantine elites. The infrequent record of its use after the defence of Constantinople in 718, and the poor performance of the Byzantine navy in subsequent years, indicates that the secret of Greek fire had been lost to its users. But even secret weapons do not usually remain completely secret, and the Arabs themselves managed to develop a version of Greek fire that was used for some time to come.

Ambiguity even surrounds the weapon’s name. The term “Greek fire” was coined by Western European crusaders in the 13th century - quite some time after the method of producing the weapon in its original form was lost. One of its original names was actually “Roman fire,” since the Arabs, Russians, and Bulgars against whom it was used saw the Byzantines as Roman rather than Greek. The Byzantines themselves termed the weapon “marine fire,” “liquid fire,” “prepared fire,” or “artificial fire.” Despite its shrouded nature and its limited use, Greek fire is a good example of how a single weapon can alter the balance of power and, if even for a short period of time, alter the course of history.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tut…/greekfire.html

They remade it on the history channel and tested it out to see if it would work. It infact did and worked rather nicely I think. Pretty amazing given the time it was invented. 8)

Very interesting stuff indeed. I saw that programme too. Just because it wa sin the past we shouldnt think that men were less intelligent than today.

actually id say the Classcal and Ancient Greeks were more smart then modern day Greeks :lol: :lol: :oops:

either way i never knew such a weapon existed back then, pretty amazing, bit scary too…

A question and not a flame.

Did the Byzantines classify themselves as Greek?

yes

and the language they spoke was Classical Greek (which is the language spoken in ALL Orthodox Churches)

my Uncle is actually a Byzantian Greek (born in Instanbul)

the problem with Greece is that they consider anyone with a Greek Birth Certificate Greek, and say theres no minorities amon Greeks

so if you’re Albanian you’re considered Greek and dont have a minority background

theres no Greek tribes like Spartans or Athenians, you’re just Greek, which is incorrect as im proud to say im half Mycenean and half Corcyrian (Myceneans from Argos in the Peloponese and Corcyrians from a island called Corfu)

anyways to stay on topic, does anyone know how they were made those flame throwers?

totally agree :wink:

also the member Tsolias is a Byzantium Greek as well

Greek fire -called liquid fire by the Greeks (υγρόν πύρ) was propably made from a micture of brimstone,tar,salt,petrol,olive oil,naphta,and some kind af early powder.
It could be extinguised with vinegar.

Thanks for that because I thought they considered themselves Romans. So what was all the stuff about the Western Roman Empire?

Did they act as Romans or Greeks? Did the call themselves Roman Emperors or greek emperors?

I dont know enough about this, but if you point me in the right direction I will continue my studies, as I did with the macedonians.

With what?

With what?[/quote]

with Minimalistix

the problem with Greece is that they consider anyone with a Greek Birth Certificate Greek, and say theres no minorities amon Greeks

the ethnical minoritie have to be respeted also

Just imagine that the main cause for the fall of Constantinople was that when the Byzantine Emperor forced to make piece with the Pope and unite the two Christian churches (in order to get military help from him) all Greeks were furious and said: we prefer the Turks from the Romans!

Oh no they didnt consider themselves Romans, the Byzantine Empire was formed when Rome split thanks to Germanic pressure, and the Eastern Part of the Roman Empire became the Byzantine Empire

and you say did they act like Romans or Greeks, well whats the difference??? (lol) the Romans were very much like Greek, they copied the Greek Gods, just only added different names to them (for example Jupiter The King of the Gods was Zeus in Greek) and the architecture of the Roamn buildings were just like the Greeks, etc etc etc

another interesting thing, Byzantium (original name of the city) was renamed Constantinople (modern day Instanbul, Turkey) Constantinople was a ROMAN and not a Greek (most un-educated Greeks think King Constantinople was actually Greek) so there was still alot of Roman ‘influence’ in Byzantium/Constantinople

The Byzantine Empire were MOSTLY Orthodox and the Western Empire was MOSTLY Catholic

the Byzantians also had alot of affiliation with the Muslims of Palestine and theres been alot of historical sources that show the Byzantian Orthodoxies marrying Arab Muslims and there was alot of friendship between the two Empires, of course that all changed when the Catholics went and attacked the Muslims…

Minimal, Do you mean Constantine the Great? He was an Emperor or a Caesar or even an Augustus but not a King. Constantine might very well have come from York (Eboracum to the Romans) in England. The “-ople” bit in Constantinople is a form, as you no doubt know, of the word polis meaning city.

Your claim that the Romans merely renamed the Greek gods is slightly off, yes the Romans tended to borrow gods from people they took over, but they also had an original pantheon of their own gods (Jupiter, Mars, Minerva, Quirinus, Venus etc) and they tended to associate foreign gods with similar characteristics with them assuming that if they did the same thing they must be the same deity. Over time many of these became so closely associated with one another that they were indistinguishable but they did have separate roots.
The Romans also had a distinctly different outlook on the world. They were much more practical while the Greeks were philosophical, Latin is a much more practical language than greek while greek is much better at expressing abstract concepts. The Romans liked gladiatoral games while the greeks prefered theatre, hence the fact that there were far more Amphitheatres in the western Empire than the eastern “Greek” provinces but more theatres in the east than the west.

Bladensburg everything you say is true, except i didnt know about the Gods, learn new things everyday :lol: however, yes i am talking about Constantine The Great, who was the emperor of the Byzantine empire, and renamed Byzantium after himself

also Constantinople (the city) was the largest city back in that time before the Ottomans over ran it

more info for you firefly if you’re religious, in Instanbul (formerly Constantinople) the Churches mother Church is in Instanbul, Hagia Sophia, which means Saint Sophie in English

Its the headchurch for the Orthodoxies, Catholics, Anglicans etc etc etc
and they believe some of Jesus’ belongings are hidden in the Church, even the Catholics think so, so there a good chance there could be

During the Ottoman Empire, Holy Hagia Sophia was used as a Mosque but when Kamel Ataturk created the modern country of Turkey he turned Hagia Sophia into a museum and stopped it being a Mosque (doesnt redeem him for being responsible for the killings of over 5 Million Orthodox Christians)

Ah well mate, thats religion for you, so uncompromising. As I have posted before My grandad was a Minister. So Im in no way religious after the treatment I recieved in my early years. Sunday was a day that me and my brother looked forward to with dread. but thats another story and off topic.

Thanks for the info though. Im sure that Jesus belongings have rotted away in 200 years though. But nonetheless i do believe there was a Jesus. What was his Greek name?

His Greek name is Ιησούς (Eeshoes).

but his mostly referred to Xristos in Greek which means Christ.

During the Ottoman Empire, Holy Hagia Sophia was used as a Mosque but when Kamel Ataturk created the modern country of Turkey he turned Hagia Sophia into a museum and stopped it being a Mosque (doesnt redeem him for being responsible for the killings of over 5 Million Orthodox Christians)

5 million orthodox christians?even armenians claim that we killed 1 million!just where did you get that “historical fact”?you can not honor your ancestors this way my friend.see,they used “greek fire” but you are being a “greek flamer”.oh,i remember now,you were 16 years old or something;hormones raging and all that.well at least you are interested in history;you could be listening to doom metal or doing drugs.even worse you could be an anime fanboy.

and thats why your fucked up Mongol-Turkik Race cant join EU, because one of the conditions is for you Turks to RECOGNISE the Orthodox Genocide which you people keep denying you did

i didnt want to be rude, but why start saying those things about with with drugs and all???

and perhaps this is enough proof http://www.neobyzantine.org/movement/problems/asia_minor/genocide_asia_minor.php asshole

leave me alone and start killing Kurds instead, u guys already had ur fun with Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians