Hanoi Jane : the bits not widely known.

Other Wars Vietnam War
#1

This is likely to be seen as controversial by some.
So be it: I shall make NO Apology for that which is in My Own memory, regarding these events.

What the US media missed noting at the time was that there were French, Australian, and even British media present during Hanoi Jane’s visitations.

Despite Snope’s page attempting to exonerate the evil, treacherous
Hanoi Jane, I CAN and DO attest to the following:

(Notwithstanding that Snopes says the men named on their page deny the paper-handling incident, Snopes may be right BUT: paper WAS handed over.)

She Was in NVA Uniform, and later VC gear.

She Did spit in the faces of US personnel.
She Did ask them how the felt to be killing babies, non-combatants.
She Did ask why they were variously bombing “Hospitals” (in reality disguised ammo dumps) and murdering VC POWs.

MOST IMPORTANTLY:

She DID, I Repeat DID, hand the pieces of paper to the NVA Officer at the far end of one of the many line-ups of American personnel.

(This was, as far as I know, the ONLY occasion on which the bitch shook hands with American personnel.)

How do I know?

I SAW IT. Filmed by an Australian crew.
THAT was on the Evening News shown here in NZ.

That, is not known in the US media, apparently.

In My Personal View: that action alone condemns Jane Fonda as a Traitor to the USA.

Email or not : the evil treacherous BITCH should NEVER be forgiven : she DID cost good decent Men their Lives.

Message ENDS.

Regards, Uyraell.

#2

Um, this is in the wrong forum as we have a Vietnam War section. Secondly, why is this email (and I’m not at all a fan of posting chain emails as they harbor mostly a lot of bullshit really) attempting to usurp Snopes? Most of the Vets involved have forgiven “Hanoi” Jane, and much of the attributed ‘evidence’ turned out to be utter crap, especially “the list.”

#3

Any additional word on the taped messages she is supposed to have made for the North, urging soldiers to defect, etc. I have heard recordings said to be made by her, and it sounded like her inasmuch as could be told from the not too well done recordings. If these recordings are genuine, she has little defense.

#4

It was the other way round, Snopes is claiming the email is in effect a falsehood.
That may well be so.
However whether or not the email is demonstrably false (and Snopes attempts to exonerate Jane Fonda on the basis of the email) the fact is she was filmed passing at least 4 strips of paper to the NVA Officer.

Thereon, much hinges, in my view.

As to having set my initial thread re Jane Fonda in the wrong place, my Apologies: I just wasn’t certain it went alongside the standard VN thread.

Regards, Uyraell.

#5

Funny, one of the POWs reportedly beaten over the paper incident was on television a while back.

He said simply that it did not happen.

She was a stupid spoiled rich kid actress who made a big mistake.

She was wrong, given the situation.

“Forgive” is just a word.

#6

The well known commie loving and socialist Fox News is in on the conspiracy to deny these ‘facts’

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,768,00.html

" she did not, I repeat did not, turn in the names of American POWs to the North Vietnamese military. There was no passing of pieces of crumpled paper from Americans to her."

Funny that someone says he saw a film of this ‘event’ that never happened…

I SAW IT. Filmed by an Australian crew.
THAT was on the Evening News shown here in NZ.

That, is not known in the US media, apparently

I believe you, I really do!

#7

Well, I found on AOL this morning a small piece about Hanoi Jane, Saying that a documentary, or similar type film that was to be released back then was banned after her alleged actions. It goes on to say that this piece of film will be soon released for public exhibition,with the thought that it will expose the skeletons in Fonda’s closet.I guess we’ll see whats what then. If any of these allegations prove to be true, Its time for her to “leave town” If not, then she can go in peace. This should have been dealt with decades ago.

#8

Um, one of my points is that the whole “Fonda the commie-lib traitor” thing is little more than a cottage industry at this point -and a snake oil purveying fraudulent one. She has apologized for her actions like sitting on a fucking anti-aircraft gun, but beyond that, many of these silly “books” that have come out have written little more than slander and have fabricated testimony that was contradicted by the actual people the book(s) say they quote…

Read the Snopes site, and draw your own conclusions. And Snopes is also hardly a “commie lib” site, since they’ve gone a long way towards debunking the Bush-insidejob-911 crap as well (which is also another slimy cottage industry, but that’s a topic for a different thread)!

Edit:

The funny thing is, after re-reading the Snopes link, not only are these money-changing “authors” who pander to a ‘supa’-patriotic crowd in the US doing Ms. Fonda, whom I have no great love for and who I think was basically a bimbo sex-toy actress (see “Barbarella” for instance, but god she was hot!) trying to be “taken seriously” with her own political pandering, a disservice by trumping up old wounds and even possibly putting her in danger by misinforming people of her actions and fanning anger in a lunatic fringe. They are also apparently ANNOYING THE FUCK OUT OF THE ACTUAL ex-POWs who were purported to have met her (most didn’t) to the extent that they are being hounded and harassed over it. So, in a sense, these authors are as bad as Jane Fonda ever was and have done at least an equal disservice to men that were tormented enough for one lifetime!

#9

we spit back. right here in my home town

Police: Man Arrested For Spitting On Jane Fonda
Fonda Declines To Press Charges

POSTED: Wednesday, April 20, 2005
UPDATED: 4:15 pm EDT April 20, 2005
KANSAS CITY, Mo. – Police said they arrested a man for spitting on two-time Academy Award-winning actress Jane Fonda (pictured, right) during a book-signing stop in Kansas City Tuesday night.
Fonda, 67, spoke at Unity Temple, in The Plaza shopping district, about her new best-selling book, “My Life So Far,” and her new movie with Jennifer Lopez called “Monster-In-Law.”
At about 9 p.m., police said 54-year-old Michael A. Smith, who had been waiting in line for about 90 minutes, passed a book to Fonda and then spit a large amount of tobacco juice into her face.
They said Smith then ran away and was taken into custody by off-duty officers, who were providing security for the event.

Fonda declined to prosecute Smith.

A Vietnam veteran, Smith was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct, which is a city charge.

In 1972, Fonda was photographed sitting in a North Vietnamese anti-aircraft tank.

About her protest involvement in the Vietnam War, Fonda has apologized for her anti-aircraft tank photo, calling it an incredible lapse in judgment. She has not apologized for opposing the war.

I tried to post his bail but of course someone beat me to it

[source](http://www.clickorlando.com/entertainment/4397174/detail.html)

#10

And why did he spit in a 67-year old woman’s face? Because a “POW” supposedly did in Vietnam even though it turns out no one did?

How heroic…

Would he spit in Kissenger’s face for basically saying that although it was almost sure that South Vietnam will fall once the US withdrawal was complete, that US troops should still be vainly sent into combat to die?

I’m sorry, I have a problem when people obsess over a half-wit actress when their political leaders were lying to them the whole time…

#11

if that’s true then why did she publicity apologize for it???

#12

For all his other faults, unlike Fonda, I don’t think Kissinger actually committed treason.

#13

Oh right, please define “treason”…

#14

If what specifically was true?

then why did she publicity apologize for it???

Because she was an ignorant asshole and later knew it…

What were everyone else’s excuses?

McNamara? LBJ? Nixon? Westmorland? JFK? Ike?

#15

In the case of the United States it’d be something approximating to, waging war against the US or supporting the enemy or giving them aid and comfort.

#16

The ‘aid and comfort’ provision is a common element of treason, but what about the ‘enemy’ part?

My recollection is that America, along with Australia, New Zealand, South Korea and others, was in Vietnam to aid the government of South Vietnam (SVN), and that none of them were formally or legally at war with North Vietnam (NVN).

If so, how can NVN be America’s enemy for the legal purposes of a treason charge, regardless of the reality that the US was bombing the crap out of NVN at the time and NVN had forces in the field against the US and others aiding SVN?

#17

The United States never declared war against North Vietnam, making any case against her highly charged and dubious at best. As stated in the article, while it was theoretically possible to charge her for aiding and comforting, it’s also pretty clear that Nixon had no intention of doing so.

The US had also given very light sentences to its War Criminals like Calley. So, what would have been the message? How long should she have been imprisoned for going on the radio when a 1LT got a couple of years for wiping out a village of Vietnamese?

#18

Given that much of the Vietnam war was a media and propaganda war, and given her prominent impact contrasted with Calley and Co’s conciliatory ‘hearts and minds’ efforts being largely denied or submerged for years :rolleyes:, I reckon she’d have been lucky to get off with elebenty leben life sentences.

Anyone who wasn’t alive and involved during that crazy time can’t begin to understand it.

And those of us who were there are often still rather confused. :confused:

There comes a time in the affairs of all people where it’s time to forget the past.

She is highly symbolic of the divisions of the period, but so are Nixon and Kissinger, and others, who were much more invovled and who don’t attract the same personal attention.

#19

To Nick & R S*

That the United States never formally declared war against North Vietnam has probably a good deal to do with the UN Charter forbidding the use or threat of war in such international relations, nevertheless Congress did authorise it in the Southeast Asia Resolution.
In such circumstances I don’t think it is difficult to work out who the meaning of ‘the enemy.’
Aid & succour, (with all the propaganda and especially the media hype that brings these unpleasantnesses into the civvies’ homes,) is probably not difficult to define either.

I’m sure there were many reasons that the ‘lady’ concerned wasn’t charged, but I think the case against her was pretty strong.

Since the formation of the UN I’m pressed to think of an occasion when war has been formally declared.
The effect of the Charter was brought to my attention in '82 when there was a conflict in the South Atlantic rather than a ‘war.’
(Yeah, political semantics make me wince at times too.)

#20

The United States never declared War against the North because it would have been political suicide…

And since the US was withdrawing at the time, I doubt there was much case against her at all…no court would ever have convicted her.