hearts and minds

Site Issues 2005 Archive Room
#1

hearts and minds boys,

Forget if this guy is a taxi driver, look at the drills in this video.

We have side-on “yardie” use of side arms designed to look cool for the video - Grand theft Auto more than side arm range stances.
The Tankie narrator is more interested in impressing the bloke behind the camera than in dealing with the situation.
only after the “incident” does anyone speak to the owner of the vehicle (and confirm it is his lifeblood)
The “justice” issued to the looters appears quite kangaroo court and not particualrly official. (or sanctioned)
At no point do the Iraqis appear put at ease, or sympathised with by the Tank Crew.

http://www.killsometime.com/video/video.asp?video=Dont-Loot

Try that is N.I. and Im fairly sure youd have been seen milk bottles and flamin car tyres all over the streets. That video, as one incident, is out of order. I am not saying that all of the US military is like this, but IRONMAN do you agree that that behaviour is absolutely despicable?

#2

Wonder why the Iraqis hate the occupational forces when things like that happen? The crew commander’s a tool, so are the rest of them. The guy doing the “gangsta” thing with his pistol (is it the crew commander?) is a grade A tosser.

#3

actually I thought it was bound to make the local population accepting of our presence. In fact just the day after this event, three of the guys kneeling on the ground bounded up the check point a few miles down the road, invited all the US forces to a wedding and told the base commander over tea and buns where the could find an arms cache, insurgent safe house and the 2 of clubs from the orignal pack of 52.

or maybe… That tank crew fucked it all up!

“US ARMY TANKERS ROOL”

God help us - (and the Iraqi in the street before that!)

#4

Feck me!

Now, remind me - are we (meaning “the coalition” meant to be an occupying force or a liberating force?

I can’t even begin to list what was wrong with what they did in that clip…

Defend that, ironman! I’m sure you can quote some statistic of civvies killed by bombs in the war phase to explain why what went on in that clip was ok.

#5

I think that, rather more wisely than I gave him credit for, IRONMAN is keeping his head down and his mouth shut.

It would not be a good idea for him to start his usual bollocks tonight after the events of the day…

#6

Apologies to all Americans on the forum, for showing this clip in such a sanctimonious light, If IRONMAN were one of mine Id ask him outside to dress him down a bit before letting him back in.

#7

I’m a bit drunk, but here goes…

The use of different camera angles suggests to me that it was a set-up movie. Also, when the US soldier fires his pistol at the car, the recoil looks more akin to a .22 than a 9mm, suggesting that he’s firing blanks.

Much as nothing would surprise me about US treatment of Iraqi civilians, that looks like a set-up to me.

#8

Well regardless I think todays events in London show that the Americans and the Brits are knee deep in the shit again. All differences and bitching’s aside we again find ourselves in war together. I cant think of another country on earth that I would prefer to have on my side then the crazy, yet brave sons of bitches on that little island across the pond. :wink: :smiley:

#9

Well regardless I think todays events in London show that the Americans and the Brits are knee deep in the shit again. All differences and bitching’s aside we again find ourselves in war together. I cant think of another country on earth that I would prefer to have on my side then the crazy, yet brave sons of bitches on that little island across the pond. :wink: :D[/quote]

<Sniffs, wipes manly tear from eye>

Thanks mate, well said.

#10

STOP INSULTING,please bluffcove,if ironman insults you,send me a pm,and i will see what i have to do,but,if you continue insulting,you will receive a warning.

#11

Well regardless I think todays events in London show that the Americans and the Brits are knee deep in the shit again. All differences and bitching’s aside we again find ourselves in war together. I cant think of another country on earth that I would prefer to have on my side then the crazy, yet brave sons of bitches on that little island across the pond. :wink: :D[/quote]

Well said. 8)

#12

Answered your own point there

#13

:shock:

You won’t find many of them amongst the Brits on this forum…

#14

So those photos were handed ovetr the counter of a photo developing sotre by a none too bright squaddie and he is now in prison. along with his mates.

Have any photos come out of Guantanomo? A free holiday in Cuba! bloody marvellous, the fact that the camp is on foreign territory and consequently none of the civil rights afforded to foreign prisoners on US soil have to be exteneded there is purely coincidental, it must be because of the security risk, You never know when a man manacled 24 hours a day and strapped to a spine board, might suddenly escape!

and I agree with BDL the 3 guys in that incident are now serving out their time in a prison.

How exactly does our attitude expressing disdain for the actions of those american tankees make us look bad to Iraqis? Maybe if we congratlated the tankees on their just use of force against hte liberated civilian population they would respect us more? Get a grip, dont piss of the locals and you might manage to leave Iraq with more empty body bags than full ones!

#15

You won’t find many of them amongst the Brits on this forum…[/quote]
Well, I am, a bit <hangs head in shame>. I’ve got no time for virtually all the rest of his party or some of his policies, but I think he personally hasn’t done a bad job at all. I suspect I may be about the only UK citizen on the forum to think that way though…

#16

You won’t find many of them amongst the Brits on this forum…[/quote]
Well, I am, a bit <hangs head in shame>. I’ve got no time for virtually all the rest of his party or some of his policies, but I think he personally hasn’t done a bad job at all. I suspect I may be about the only UK citizen on the forum to think that way though…[/quote]

Im also a semi-admirer. Although I dont agree with a lot of what he says, I do with some. I also think he has had the balls to make Labour electable. I know the party is full of malcontents, and although Ive never even voted for them, I think that 90% of the time he is genuine. After all what is the alternative?

#17

I know where I come from (Tony Blair’s constituency is next door to mine), the difference between the old Tory government and the Labour government has been tangible - brand new hospital builty where before 1997 there was discussion of just closing the old one.

I and all of my siblings have employment, are prospering and leading happy, content lives under the current government.

Things are not perfect, but I feel that certainly in my locality, people feel they are better off since Tony Blair brought his party to power.

As for Iraq etc. I also think he’s no more a liar than any other Prime Minister - if anythink I think with the ever developing 24/7 news media, it’s just a case of greater scrutiny.

But then, that’s just me. Those who aren’t fans can sleep safe knowing your vote counts just the same as mine. :slight_smile:

#18

When both myself & my sister were at Uni, my parents were worse off to the tune of approx 3k.

Now they’re only worse off to the tune of approx 1k, to no tangible improvement in local services (it’s got so bad around here that my father’s employer has had to put the employees on BUPA :shock:).

I guess it’s a question of where you live. My parents live in a safe tory constituency, so have seen zero extra invenstment since 1997. I hear that a lot of marginal & Labour constituencies have seen lots of improvements, but since my parents’ area is not part of the labour target audience, the régime couldn’t give a damn for them.

#19

Back to the topic:

I found this link on the ARRSE site, the text is quite long but interesting:
http://www.sftt.us/HTML/article07072005a.html

Jan

#20

Even on a first read, that’s an impressive, thoughtful document, and one that confirms and builds on some of the comments already made by some posters here.
It does read as if the USMC has reached the same conclusions as the British Army, albeit somewhat belatedly.

On thing that has cropped up a few times in some of these articles, without explanation, is the depth of anger and humiliation caused to Muslims by a soldier putting his foot on their head.
This goes far beyond the physical, and far beyond the humiliation that might be felt by a Westerner in the same situation.
To Muslims, the sole of the shoe is anathema; it’s unclean from contact with the ground.
When sitting in company with Muslims, care has to be taken not to even point the sole of the shoe towards them, a gross insult, which is why they traditionally sit with their feet tucked under their thighs.
It’s also why Muslims and visitors remove their shoes prior to entering a Mosque.
We all saw the pictures of Iraqis beating the fallen statue of Saddam with their shoes, almost the greatest insult they could bestow, and yet most observers never asked why.
Another example of cultural differences, and a lack of knowledge of those differences, having far reaching consequences.