I’ve seen a few films depicting helicopters in use during WW2. Is there any fact behind this? Were helicopters of any sort used by the military during WW2?
TIA
I seem to remember seeing a item on tv years back showing a wind powered auto gyro contraption used by Uboats to see over the horizon though as I havent seen anything about it since I may be mistaken
any one got info or links
Focke Achgelis…
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/Fa_223/DI52.htm
Und hier…
http://www.flying-bike.demon.co.uk/helistuff/heli.html
And in the USA…
http://home.earthlink.net/~aircommando1/HelioUSA.htm
But Russia was the first…
http://inventors.about.com/library/inventors/blhelicoptor.htm
The Luftwaffe had real helicopters in operational service during the war.
Yeah, I saw it in ‘The Dirty Dozen’ !
Didnt Hanna Reisch (Sp) fly a German Helicopter inside a building at some rally? The Germans did have some Helos during ww2 though:
http://www.helis.com/types/gunship.php
As did the Allies, I cant find anything, but have read that some Medical Evacuations were made by them.
A German by the name of Anton Flettner designed the Kolibri.
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Rotary/flettner/HE6.htm
Thanks for all info above - interesting stuff.
Cuts wrote:
Yeah, I saw it in ‘The Dirty Dozen’ !
Me too! I didn’t want to admit to that though as not sure how credible that would have been as a source!!!
The reason why I asked the question in the first place is because I was wondering why they weren’t used in place of gliders and paras at places like Arnhem etc. The precision of the landing would be far better from a helicopter than from parachutes. From the various URL’s given above I presume that they weren’t used because:
1 - Noise - compared with gliders.
2 - It would seem that all nations gave the development of conventional aircraft the priority during the war as these are more likely to be “war winning” machines than helicopters.
3 - At the start of the war helicopters could only cope with a load of about two people and a picnic lunch.
4 - Slow/easy prey.
In service helos actually rescued downed Luftwaffe airmen. But for last minute mechanical trouble on the machine to be used, Mussolini was to be rescued by Skorzeny’s men. Instead the Fiesler Storch was used.
The first helicopter to be used operationally by the Allies was the Sikorsky R-4B “Hoverfly”, in May 1944.
Here is some info on German helos. I’m not posting it so people can argue whether the German helos were any good or not. It is simply here for those that may appreciates it.
FOCKE ACHGELIS GmbH
FA223
Dr. Heinrich Karl Johann Focke developed several helicopters that flew during WW II. The FA 269 tilt-rotor concept will be seen but there were several viable models of normal rotary wing craft too.
In late 1940, pilot Karl Bode flew the Fa 223 Drache (kite) V1 over to the Rechlin test center where its performance set a new world helicopter speed record of 113 MPH with a climb rate record of 1,732 feet per minute and an altitude record of 23,294 feet. In America 1944 Igor Sikorsky’s R-4B had a top speed of only 75 MPH with a ceiling of 8,000 feet.
Five versions were envisioned- an anti submarine helicopter carrying either two 550-lb. bombs or depth charges, a reconnaissance helicopter; for search and rescue; a transport helicopter; and a dual control trainer
The Fa 223 made 115 flights before a crash destroyed it. Other prototypes continued to test lift capabilities in field operations. 1,100 lbs. could be hauled 6,500 feet high in seven minutes. In actual combat conditions in February 1945 it began operational life by picking up a downed Bf 109 pilot near Danzig and overflew Russian forces to safety. The mission, commencing at Templhoff Airdrome, racked up 1,041 miles proving the machines usefulness.
At the war’s end a Luftwaffe pilot escaped to France then on to England making the first crossing of the English Channel by helo. Most of the Allies got their hands on surviving Fa 223 examples and the rest is history.
The Fa223 weighed 11,000 lbs. with its twin rotors spanning 39.3 feet in diameter. The fuselage was 40.2 feet long. Takeoff power came from a fan-cooled 1,000 HP BMW Bramo 323 9-cylinder radial aft of the cockpit. Normal output was 620 HP. It could cruise at 76 MPH for 435 miles with auxiliary fuel, had a 109 MPH top speed, a climb rate of 1,100 FPM and a ceiling of 16,000 feet. This type of performance would not be seen till much later in post-war machines.
FA283
Focke was not left behind in performance helos either. The Fa 283 was to mount an unnamed jet engine in the fuselage driving a three-blade rotor. The jet was not to turn those blades directly but instead would provide thrust to make an auto-gyro effect. It had fully retractable landing wheels. No other specifications exist.
FA 284
The much later Sikorsky Skycrane notion was already considered in the Fa 284. The 2-seater was to use two 59.5-foot side-by-side, outrigger rotors above a 45-foot fuselage that made it about half again the size of the Fa 223. 1,600 HP BMW 801 radials mounted on the outriggers so complex gearing or shafts were not needed. Empty it would weigh 8,100 lbs. and loaded 26,460 lbs.
It would cruise at 129 MPH with a top speed around 155 MPH and be able to climb at 1,000 FPM. Range was estimated at 248 miles but lifting weights were not proposed.
It was proposed that two Fa 223s be combined to accomplish the same job with four rotors and the venture was cancelled in 1943.
FA 269
With his pioneering work in helicopters, Dr. Heinrich Karl Johann Focke had already built and flown several designs. The Fa 223 was quite progressive with a twin rotor layout and seating for four in a fully enclosed fuselage. Three survived the war in airworthy condition.
But Focke predated the V-22 Osprey tilt-rotor craft by half a century with his Fa 269! It was called a convertiplane back in 1943 during its design. The 32.9-foot wings each had a DB 605 at mid-span driving large diameter (16 feet proposed) three-blade pusher props. The fuselage of 29.1 feet in length sat on a very snout-high landing gear with a transparent nose floor housing a 2-man crew. The possible uses in WW II are the same as today’s making it a handy aircraft.
In Focke’s layout he didn’t envision the whole wing rotating like the Osprey, only the engines and their props downward at 85-degrees. There was a special pivoting gearbox at the front of each engine, from which a drive shaft passed back between the engine cylinder banks to drive its propeller behind the wing’s trailing edge. In the completely down position, the propellers were almost parallel to the ground. For this reason a very long tail wheel was needed, which retracted into the fuselage.
Maximum speed was reasoned to be about 373 MPH depending on the horsepower and engine model. Further specs are not known. The project was dropped in 1944 since considerable development was needed for the special gearboxes, drives, pivoting mechanisms and prop pitch controls for landing and taking off. Since the wings didn’t tilt they could continue to provide lift even during slow forward travel as transition of the engines occurred. Perhaps though, THIS is the right way to do tilt-rotor!
WESSERFLUG
The Focke-Angelis FA 269 was the first tilt-rotor, the V-22 Osprey owing its concept to this grandfather craft. But another lesser-known company also designed a tilt-rotor ship. A Dr. Rohrbach conceived ideas on VTOL craft in 1933 and joined Wesserflug in 1935 where in 1938 Dipl. Ing. Simon began the P.1003 project.
Little survives of the data other than that two 13.1-foot rotors were driven by single Daimler Benz DB 605Ds of 1,550 HP in the 27.2-foot main fuselage. The rotors turned at the tips pf 36-foot wings, which tilted in mid-span to facilitate changes of thrust. The craft was 4,400 lbs. loaded but range was not estimated. Speed was calculated at 403 MPH. As with the FA 269, the special gearboxes, drives, pivoting mechanisms and prop pitch controls for landing and taking off were not yet developed.
Range, payload, expense, training requirements, and so on.
Range, payload, expense, training requirements, and so on.[/quote]
Not forgetting the War Ministry report: ‘Wider Application of Humint Before Implementing Test & Evaluation.’
Cuts – are you sure that said report applies here?
Thanks for the Helo info, I never knew the Germans had just so many diffrent ones.
Her name was Hanna Reitsch. She flew a Focke-Wulff helicopter inside the Deutschlandhalle in Berlin, a huge multipurpose hall. My grandfather was there when it happened and he often told me about it.
Jan
Her name was Hanna Reitsch. She flew a Focke-Wulff helicopter inside the Deutschlandhalle in Berlin, a huge multipurpose hall. My grandfather was there when it happened and he often told me about it.
Jan
Not quite…actually it was the Focke-Achgelis Fa 61…
Pic. of the one of the flights inside the Hall…
n 1937 she was posted to the Luftwaffe testing center at Rechlin by Ernst Udet. While under direct command of Karl Franke she soon became a major test pilot on the Junkers Ju 87 Stuka and Dornier Do 17 projects, as well as one of the few to fly the new Focke-Achgelis Fa 61, the world’s first helicopter. Her flying and her photogenic qualities made her a star of the Nazi party, always looking for publicity, and in 1938 she flew the Fa 61 every night inside the “Deutschlandhalle” at the Berlin Motor Show.
From …
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanna_Reitsch
2 cents. 
The Mi-12 is an alarmingly similar design (two built - didn’t live up to expectations, cancelled), although in the West a similar helicopter doesn’t spring to mind. The Piasecki/Boeing Vertol lineage, and the likes of at least uses a tandem rotor configuration, although not side-by-side. As far as I can gather, this began with the Piasecki XHRP-X - first flight March 1945.
FA283
Focke was not left behind in performance helos either. The Fa 283 was to mount an unnamed jet engine in the fuselage driving a three-blade rotor. The jet was not to turn those blades directly but instead would provide thrust to make an auto-gyro effect.
Thus making it a jet gyrocopter, not a helicopter, surely?
Regarding the Fa 269:
The possible uses in WW II are the same as today’s making it a handy aircraft.
He he he. Given the lethality of the V-22, it might have been interesting to see what the Nazi’s made of the concept! Even with modern technology, it’s an alarmingly efficient way of killing test pilots. Something I’m not a big fan of in my line of work, but given that it’s the Nazi’s, it’s a shame they didn’t build the Fa 269, really!
In Focke’s layout he didn’t envision the whole wing rotating like the Osprey,
:lol:
Since the wings didn’t tilt they could continue to provide lift even during slow forward travel as transition of the engines occurred. Perhaps though, THIS is the right way to do tilt-rotor!
Perhaps I’m missing something here… It may sound good to say the Nazis were getting right what Bell/Boeing are getting wrong to prove your point… but…
… it surely couldn’t have hurt to look at a V-22 before making such claims. :roll:
Snicker. To be fair there have been vaguely successful tiltrotors that used the whole tilting wing concept…
The two are of course really easy to confuse. I mean, they both have wings and two engines. Anybody could make that mistake!
I always thought that the Allies were the driving force behind Helicopter development pre-ww2 and beyond.