HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse hull damage survey report

This was posted at another forum by diver Kevin Denlay.

HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse hull damage survey report
http://www.explorers.org/expeditions/reports/Expedition%20Job_74_web_version.pdf

http://www.network54.com/Forum/594514/message/1212715954/HMS+Prince+of+Wales+and+HMS+Repulse+hull+damage+survey+report

Folks,

For those so interested, the summary report from Expedition ‘Job 74’ (a damage survey of the hulls of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse) can finally be viewed at the following web site. When page opens just go down the page and click on Flag 118 /Expedition ‘Job 74’.

http://www.explorers.org/expeditions/reports/reports_1.php

However, at time or posting info was still not back in from divers on site, literally as I write this, who are conducting certain measurements on PoW to hopefully confirm even another finding/revelation that is not yet contained in the current survey report.

Also please note, the posting (at last!) of said survey report by the Explorers Club on their web site has come at a somewhat inopportune time for me as I am going to be now off-line more or less for the next ten days or so, or a best will only have limited internet access, so if any questions don’t get answered in a timely manner then that is why. (I was going to wait to ‘announce’ the Explorers Club posting our aforementioned survey report on the their web site until I returned but…thought it better I post the link here rather than it being ‘found’ by someone trolling the web.)

Anyway, I hope you find the report interesting.

Kevin Denlay

Kevin Denlay - Diver
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/visitors/denlay.html
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/people/visitors/denlay/mv-empress.html

HMS Repulse
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/hms/repulse.html

HMS Prince of Wales
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/hms/prince_of_wales.html

I’m rather nervous about people diving on the PoW and Repulse, largely due to the activities of a diver named Andrew Georgitsis. He has made a series of penetration dives on both wrecks, and is selling a commercial DVD on eBay made during these dives. Part of that DVD (in the engine room of Repulse, IIRC) includes a view of obviously posed human remains, and from what I’ve read there was a fair amount of breaking and entering to get to that point. Kevin Denlay has clearly not behaved in any such manner (and indeed I have no objection to anything he’s done per se), but I’m still nervous about the whole thing.

Is there a law protecting the shipwrecks like that ? Isnt ?

The problem is that the ships lie in international waters, so national laws apply only to citizens of countries which have laws prohibiting diving on the ships.

Britain has declared the ships war graves and prohibits diving on them, but that law applies only to British citizens.

There is no international law that prohibits diving on them.

The problem is recognised but nothing seems to be being done about it at in international level.

http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i061221.html

It seems from the article below that Britain could still act against non-Britons diving on, and certainly taking items from, Repulse and Prince of Wales. Presumably this would require proceedings in a national court of competent jurisdiction, such as an American court where the claim is against American nationals. Presumably Britain is also entitled to take direct naval action on the high seas to prevent access to its ships.

Sunken Warships and Military Aircraft
by J. Ashley Roach, Captain, JAGC, U.S. Navy (Ret.), Office of the Legal Adviser, U.S. Department of State.

(Material contained herein is made available for the purpose of peer review and discussion and does not necessarily reflect the views of the Department of the Navy or the Department of Defense.)

At the present time there is hardly any object which cannot be located and explored on the sea-bed. Sophisticated equipment can pinpoint any anomaly on the sea-bed, and advanced technology enables the lifting of most objects.2 This technology, pioneered for the exploration of natural resources, is now in use by salvors, marine archaeologists and marine historians, whose interests are not necessarily viewed as being compatible.3 The cost of this technology is dropping rapidly and can be used by “treasure hunters”, the main interest of many of whom is the recovery of commercially valuable material without regard to the methods of archaeological excavation.4 Furthermore, much of the underwater cultural heritage which remains unexplored is on the outer reaches of the continental shelf or on the deep sea-bed beyond the limits of coastal State jurisdiction over sunken shipwrecks which, under the LOS Convention, is limited to 24 miles from the baseline.5 There is, however, at present no multilateral treaty governing the treatment of sunken ships located in those areas beyond coastal State jurisdiction,6 nor is there any multilateral treaty governing the particular case of sunken warships or military aircraft. As described in the following paragraphs, there is, nevertheless, a moderately well-developed body of customary international law governing the treatment of sunken warships and military aircraft (as opposed to other vessels and aircraft not entitled to sovereign immunity).7

Warships, naval auxiliaries, and other vessels owned or operated by a State and used at the time they sank only on government non-commercial service, are State vessels.8 Aircraft used in military, customs and police services are State aircraft.9 International law recognizes that State vessels and aircraft, and their associated artifacts, whether or not sunken, are entitled to sovereign immunity.10

In addition, such shipwrecks and sunken aircraft are historical artifacts of special importance and entitled to special protections. Many such ships and aircraft have unique histories making them important parts of their country’s traditions.11 In addition, these ships and aircraft may be the last resting places of many sailors and airmen who died in the service of their nations. 12

The practice of States confirms the well-established rule of international law that title to such vessels and aircraft is lost only by capture or surrender during battle (before sinking),13 by international agreement, 14 or by an express act of abandonment, gift or sale by the sovereign in accordance with relevant principles of international law and the law of the flag State governing the abandonment of government property.15 Once hostilities have ended, belligerents do not acquire any title to such vessels or aircraft through the act of sinking them. Likewise, title to such vessels and aircraft is not lost by the mere passage of time.16

A coastal State does not acquire any right of ownership to a sunken state vessel or aircraft by reason of its being located on or embedded in land or the seabed over which it exercises sovereignty or jurisdiction.17 Access to such vessels and aircraft and their associated artifacts located on or embedded in the seabed of foreign archipelagic waters, territorial seas or contiguous zones, is subject to coastal State control in accordance with international law.18 It is the policy of most Governments to honor requests from sovereign States to respect, or to authorize visits to, such sunken vessels and aircraft.19

Access to sunken state vessels and aircraft and their associated artifacts located on or embedded in the continental shelf seaward of 24 miles from the baseline is subject to flag State control and is not subject to coastal State control.20 Access to sunken state vessels and aircraft and their associated artifacts located on or embedded in the seabed seaward of 24 miles from the baseline is subject only to flag State control. 21

[b]Except for opposing belligerents while hostilities continue, no person or State may salvage or attempt to salvage sunken state vessels or aircraft, or their associated artifacts, wherever located, without the express permission of the sovereign flag State, whether or not a war grave.22

Once hostilities have ended, sunken state vessels and aircraft containing crew remains are also entitled to special respect as war graves and must not be disturbed without the explicit permission of the sovereign.23

The flag State is entitled to use all lawful means to prevent unauthorized disturbance of the wreck or crash site (including the debris field) or salvage of the wreck.24[/b]

Disturbance of any shipwreck or crash site is necessarily a destructive process. In virtually every instance, once recovery activities are undertaken, the site cannot be restored or replicated. Any recovery effort which disturbs the site denies other properly authorized persons the opportunity for scientific discovery and study.25

Accepted principles of marine archaeology, naval history and environmental protection require thoughtful research design, careful site surveys, minimal site disturbance consistent with research requirements, adequate financial resources, preparation of professional reports, and a comprehensive conservation plan before artifacts should be permitted to be recovered and treated.26 These principles apply particularly to sunken state vessels and aircraft.27

These rules do not affect the rights of a territorial sovereign to engage in legitimate operations, such as removal of navigational obstructions, prevention of damage to the marine environment, or other actions not prohibited by international law, ordinarily following notice to and in cooperation with the State owning the vessel or aircraft or otherwise entitled to assert the sovereign immunity of the wreck.28
My bold http://www.history.navy.mil/branches/org12-7j.htm

HMS Repulse
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/hms/repulse.html

Shipwreck

Japanese sent a team to salvage some equipment which including a new, secret radar from the HMS Repulse, some guns and several parts which useful to the Japanese. They found it 100’ from surface.

The wreck site was designated as a ‘Protected Place’ in 2001 under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986, just prior to the 60th anniversary of her sinking. The Royal Navy maintains a White Ensign flag on the mast of the Repulse

Prince of Wales
http://www.pacificwrecks.com/ships/hms/prince_of_wales.html

Shipwreck

After the war, Japanese salvage divers searched unsucessfully for this wreck to salvage materials. The wreck lies nearly upside down in 155’ at

A British flag attached to a line on a buoy that is tied to a propeller shaft is periodically renewed. The wreck site was designated as a ‘Protected Place’ in 2001 under the Protection of Military Remains Act 1986, just prior to the 60th anniversary of her sinking. The Royal Navy maintains a White Ensign flag on the mast of the Prince of Wales

Ship’s Bell

The ship’s bell was raised in 2002 with the blessing of the Ministry of Defence and The Force Z Survivors Association. It was restored, then presented for permanent display by First Sea Lord and Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Sir Alan West, KCB DSC ADC to the Merseyside Maritime Museum in Liverpool.

The ship’s bell was salvaged due to fears that if they didn’t get it another group of divers would nick it.
Personally I’d be far more comfortable if they were treated like Royal Oak, with only RN divers allowed down on it.

Oh, and there have been several Japanese attempts postwar to salvage the two wrecks for scrap metal. Funnily enough these did NOT get a favourable response from HMG.

…for scrap metal :shock: - absolutely unacceptable to HMG.

http://www.explorers.org/expeditions/reports/reports_1.php
http://www.explorers.org/expeditions/reports/Expedition%20Job_74_web_version.pdf
An eight man CCR diving team took part in Explorers Club expedition ‘Job 74’. But only three of the divers actually participated in the hull survey itself - expedition leader Dr Andrew Fock, retired Royal Navy officer Graham Sharpe Paul, and Kevin Denlay.

I wonder if budget restraints might hinder the Royal Navy from conducting such expeditions as frequently and on as broad a scale?

I think that it’s great that Prince of Wales ship’s bell was raised with the blessing of the Ministry of Defence and The Force Z Survivors Association (2002). And then presented for permanent display by First Sea Lord and Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Sir Alan West, KCB DSC ADC to the Merseyside Maritime Museum in Liverpool. :slight_smile:

The Explorers Club
http://www.explorers.org/about/about_the_club.php

The Explorers Club is an international multidisciplinary professional society dedicated to the advancement of field research and the ideal that it is vital to preserve the instinct to explore. Since its inception in 1904, the Club has served as a meeting point and unifying force for explorers and scientists worldwide. Our headquarters is located at 46 East 70th Street in New York City. Click here for a virtual tour of our Club.

Promoting Exploration for Over One Hundred Years
Founded in New York City in 1904, The Explorers Club promotes the scientific exploration of land, sea, air, and space by supporting research and education in the physical, natural and biological sciences. The Club’s members have been responsible for an illustrious series of famous firsts: First to the North Pole, first to the South Pole, first to the summit of Mount Everest, first to the deepest point in the ocean, first to the surface of the moon—all accomplished by our members.

The Club provides expedition resources including funding, online information, and member-to-member consultation. And our famed annual dinners honor accomplishments in exploration. But probably the most powerful resource available to those who join the Club is fellowship with other members—a global network of expertise, experience, technology, industry, and support. The Explorers Club actively encourages public interest in exploration and the sciences through its public lectures program, publications, travel program, and other events. The Club also maintains Research Collections, including a library and map room, to preserve the history of the Club and to assist those interested and engaged in exploration and scientific research…

The problem is that the ships lie in international waters, so national laws apply only to citizens of countries which have laws prohibiting diving on the ships.

Britain has declared the ships war graves and prohibits diving on them, but that law applies only to British citizens.

There is no international law that prohibits diving on them

Ok, thanks for the information.

I think so. Bob Ballard filed a claim on the Bismark. no diving. its now a war grave.

I doubt Mr Ballard would try to do anything so stupid, and even if he did he’d be f*cked off very rapidly by just about any government or maritime court going.

Or, in translation,

It is possible to salvage war graves - most famously the Tirpitz and HMS Edinburgh - but the permission of the government the ship belonged to, or a successor state, is required.

the ships were sailing in open water when the japanesse attacked them they both suck in like 15 minutes of the attack lots of sailors died

I doubt Mr Ballard would try to do anything so stupid, and even if he did he’d be f*cked off very rapidly by just about any government or maritime court going.

im sure he did. its was declared a war grave. it is in international waters. its to prevent looting the wreck. and to my knowledge there has been none. same with the Yorktown wreck. which is 17,000 ft to the bottom. he didn’t file one on the Titanic and look what happened.

Point being he can’t - it being a warship the only country with the right to the ship is the government it belonged to or a successor. In the case of the Bismarck that is the Federal Republic of Germany, or for Repulse that is the British Government.
RMS Titanic was a commercial vessel, for which different rules apply. Essentially you can salvage anything you like, but must declare it to a salvage court when you get it to the surface. The ship’s owners (in this case Lloyds of London, the insurers) get first refusal on buying them, but must pay a fair price, as determined by the court.

thanks for the info. I don’t know the laws pertaining to warships. still its in international waters. so who’s gonna prevent it from being looted??? Germany??? same with the Hood.

Unfortunately, there is no legal mechanism in place to prevent this happening. It’s actually a relatively recent phenomenon for people to be upset by this - several of the battlecruisers destroyed at Jutland were almost completely salvaged for scrap metal a few years after the war, and there is now very little left of them. Combine this with the fact that offshore oil exploration has brought about a revolution in deep diving technology (depths that were either impossible or the preserve of one or two navies twenty or thirty years ago are now easily accessible to civillan amateurs) and you see that in reality this is a pretty new problem.

There are some partial solutions out there - the Royal Oak for instance is well inside British territorial waters and hence anyone diving on it is likely to be spotted and caught pretty rapidly. Being in British waters of course anyone entering it (without RN permission) is also committing an offence under the Protection of Military Remains act. This act also applies to British nationals overseas, but obviously also cannot be made to apply to non-British nationals like Andrew Georgitsis. I think the way forward is an increased number of reciprocal agreements between countries to extent mutual recognition of war graves into domestic legislation. Thus Georgitsis would then be committing an offence under US law by breaking into the Repulse, posing remains for photos, etc. This sort of offence is never going to be extraditable in pracitce, so needs to be dealt with under domestic law.

Bulwark, Natal and Vanguard have all had commercial salvage rights sold by the Admiralty in the past. And, of course, inshore wreck clearance after the war was performed on numerous ‘war graves’ around our coast, just to prevent future collisions.