A couple days ago I stumbled (a program which picks random web pages) on a little website that stated some extremely interesting facts about WW2. At the time that I was reading this I thought to myself “Is this true?” so instead of asking myself that countless times; I might as well ask pros. Here’s the link to the site. This could also be part of the WW2 websites part, but I though it would fit in here pretty well, move if you’ll like mods.
There are some interesting facts there which would perfectly match other existing threads here.
Some of them are true (there are plenty of photos of the Koreans about). Some are complete tripe, e.g.
- The Graf Spee never sank, The scuttling attempt failed and the ship was bought by the British. On board was Germany’s newest radar system.
The Graf Spee definately sank, and is indeed still there at the bottom of the river Plate. It is one of the most dangerous dives in the world due to the currents, but the grain of truth in that is that the British almost certainly did recover a radar (on the quiet) from parts of the ship which remained above the surface of the shallow water of the Plate - the river being too shallow for the ship to completely sink.
- At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called CINCUS (pronounced “sink us”), the shoulder patch of the US Army’s 45th Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler’s private train was named “Amerika”. All three were soon changed for PR purposes.
-The symbol of 45th US Infantry Division was indeed a swastika (as a native american symbol) but it was changed long before the WW2 (in the early 30’s IIRC)
-Hitler’s special train was indeed called “Amerika”, it was more like a rolling headquarter. The name was changed into “Brandenburg” by February 1, 1943.
- Don’t know about the CINCUS but I remember reading about a similar occurrence. During Operation Market Garden an allied unit was supposed to attack and hold the dutch village of “Grave”. As you can imagine everybody emphasized the original dutch pronunciation of the name.
Yea, good point, just noticed that epically the one with the spotter plane that shot down a German spotter plane with a colt and the wierdiest but coolest is the one about pissing in the Rhine lol.
Ambrose mentionned the Korean soldiers in his book D-Day so I guess it’s also true.
Right, oftenly they are mistaken with japanese or asian-soviets in german service.
The Graf Spee definately sank, and is indeed still there at the bottom of the river Plate. It is one of the most dangerous dives in the world due to the currents, but the grain of truth in that is that the British almost certainly did recover a radar (on the quiet) from parts of the ship which remained above the surface of the shallow water of the Plate - the river being too shallow for the ship to completely sink
The Graff Spee sank although it may not still be there. I read some time ago that it was bought and that they were going to recover it one section at a time and turn it into a museum. Being only a few miles out of the harbour in shallow water it is possible that it is now on dry land. If they didn’t run out of money. I did a search but couldn’t find anything current on it. Yet.
It’s correct. CINCUS was the boss of the USN.
The title pre-dates WWII.
- The MISS ME was an unarmed Piper Cub. While spotting for US artillery her pilot saw a similar German plane doing the same thing. He dove on the German plane and he and his co-pilot fired their pistols damaging the German plane enough that it had to make a forced landing. Whereupon they landed and took the Germans prisoner. It is unknown where they put them since the MISS ME only had two seats.
This one can be confirmed too. Lt. Duane Francies (right) with the wreck of the german “Storch” he forced to crash-land using his colt.
Shooting down a plane with a sidearm… that sure is a story to tell…
- Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 US and Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska. 21 troops were killed in the fire-fight. It would have been worse if there had been Japanese on the island.
I think i remember reading about this in a book i have… Is it true they had no idea that the Japanese troops had fled the island?
Yes. The island had been quietly abandoned by the Japanese after heavy fighting on the sister island Attu led to the garrison’s complete annihilation…
And even more interesting story is how the Japanese on Attu lauched a final mass “Banzai charge” which hurled several thousand Japanese soldiers out of the fog at startled Americans and initiated a brutal contest of hand-to-hand fighting…
My understanding was that these Banzai charges were relatively common when a Japanese unit felt that this was the only way they could at least inflict some damage on the enemy before they died?
I’m not sure how common they were on any sort of scale. Most were local actions, but this was sort of the mother of all Banzais in any case I guess as they entire remaining Japanese force initiated the attack in an organized, coherent manner rather than as a haphazard last ditch flaying away…
I think maybe because it happened before the Japanese were reduced to the extent they were on other Pacific islands during the campaign. They were in fact still vigorously resisting and had a strong relative position. From the interview, eyewitness testimonies I saw (on PBS), the attack came as a complete shock and throngs of Japanese IA soldiers pierced the front lines deep into the US rear echelon where us REMFs were forced to fight. And the attack had a curious momentum that surpassed most other Banzai charges. Also, I think there was a fog that concealed the attack until the Emperors warriors were almost directly upon them…
Sounds dramatic - I’m surprised there’s no movie about it, to be honest…
Hollywood is going to make a movie about American forces getting the bag kicked out of them? Yeah! Right!
Where is the part for Bruce Willis or Sylvester Stallone or Arnie etc in such an otherwise cinematic turn-off for American audiences?
As for perceiving ‘Banzai charges’ as pointless suicidal acts by indoctrinated or perhaps simply stupid Emperor-worshipping Japanese who did not value their own lives, perhaps if we could free ourselves of our Western stereotypes and interpret them dispassionately we might see them as acts of great courage by people committed to their nation in time of war which are no different to other suidical military acts we admire.
[i]The Charge Of The Light Brigade
by Alfred, Lord TennysonMemorializing Events in the Battle of Balaclava, October 25, 1854
Written 1854[/i]Half a league half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred:
‘Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns’ he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.‘Forward, the Light Brigade!’
Was there a man dismay’d ?
Not tho’ the soldier knew
Some one had blunder’d:
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley’d & thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.Flash’d all their sabres bare,
Flash’d as they turn’d in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army while
All the world wonder’d:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro’ the line they broke;
Cossack & Russian
Reel’d from the sabre-stroke,
Shatter’d & sunder’d.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley’d and thunder’d;
Storm’d at with shot and shell,
While horse & hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro’ the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder’d.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred.
Yes, well, that’s all very well for the British to convert a suicidal charge into a noble act, but why do we deny the Japanese our respect and admiration when they did the same thing?
The Charge of the Light Brigade was at least as futile and at least as impressive as any Banzai charge, as noted by the French Marshal Pierre Bousquet:
“C’est magnifique, mais ce n’est pas la guerre.” (“It is magnificent, but it is not war.”)
“C’est de la folie”- (“It is madness.”)
Why don’t we accord the Japanese the same respect for their suicidal bravery at Attu, which drove deep into enemy lines and perhaps nearly put their enemy to rout, or elsewhere that is eulogised in Tennyson’s poem?
I think that we are continuing the wartime notions of Japanese as lesser beings than us, ‘us’ being Westerners.
That Western contempt for Japanese is, oddly enough, one of the major factors in creating their resentment towards the Westerners they had, with great success, emulated until the 1920s when they were humiliated and rejected by the West.
The WWII Japanese weren’t like ‘us’ in some important respects, but they were ‘us’ in every respect of being a human being and deserve to be seen and understood that way rather than as stereotypical caricatures from wartime propaganda films.
There’s other ones, which worked, too. I’m not sure if they were Australians or Canadians, but some cavalry broke through a Turkish fortress they had unsuccessfully besieged for months with one last cavalry charge in WW1, practically knocking the Ottomans out of the war.
The thing is, the Quote you pulled is from 1854. That’s almost 95 years before the Second World War, from a time when Battles were fought quite differently. There’s a reason why WW1 is called the big change in the way war was fought.
You could therefore argue that it is one thing to lead a cavalry charge into an enemy army which has single shot rifles and artillery, and leading an infantry charge into an enemy army which has M.G.s, Sub-machine Guns and Semi Automatic rifles.
I am not arguing that it didn’t take bravery for them to do it, but at the same time it’s idiotic.
PS: The British have always been the best at turning humiliating losses into glorious sacrifices 
A bit off-topic but amusing nonetheless:
During the reign of Louis the XIV in a war against England,an engagement took place between English and French troops.
At this time troops would face each other,shoot their volleys and the ones with most casualties would be the winner.Being the first to shoot was obviously an advantage.
Officers being from the aristocracy and having their own code of (dubious)honor,the English officer spoke to the French officer in a perfect french:
Tirez les premiers messieurs les francais(please shoot first dear frenchmen).
To what the French replied:
Apres vous messieurs les Anglais(after you dear Englishmen).
and so they did and the French lost the battle.
Different time indeed!
Not quite, although there are people here who’d like to believe it.
Beersheba was a light horse advance, not a cavalry charge.
Courage is timeless.
So is military stupidity.