I don’t know if it is a widely known fact, so I’ll post some info I found about italian submarines during WW2.
Royal Itialian Navy had 172 active boats during WW2. They sunk 132 merchant ships (665.317 tonn.) and 18 military ships (28.950 tonn.) - different sources give different data.
128 submarines were lost.
First italian success in the conflict was HMS “Calypso” (cruiser) which was sunk by Smg. “Bagnolini” on 12th of June 1940. Since fall of 1940 italian subs based in Bordeaux started operations in the Antlantic Ocean. Italian command was known as “BETASOM” with 21 submarines.
One of the most spectacular actions was taken by Smg. " Scire’ " which brought to the port of Alessandria (Egypt), the assault team who heavily damaged “HMS Valiant” and “HMS Queen Elizabeth”.
Some of italian subs operated near U.S. east coast, what effected in sinking of several U.S. merchant ships (68.000 tonn.).
In 1943 italians started operations in the Indian Ocean.
After collapse of fascism in Italy on the 25th of July 1943, remaining operational subs were seized by the Kriegsmarine and by Japanese Navy in the Far East. Several subs managed to enter Allied ports.
(June 1942 : “Smg. Barbarigo” back from an atlantic patrol)
August 1942 : the conning tower of the “Smg. Bronzo” (… with binoculars, Commandinig officer LT Buldrini)
Am I mistaken, or was the Italian Navy about the most effective of her armed forces in WWII. The only one that posed any significant, sustained threat to the Allies?
My feeling is that Italians were not that bad…
Common opinion is that: “God created Italians, so Austrians have someone to defeat”.
I think Italian army suffered because Italians did not wanted to fight. Another reason is that Italian Army was so poorly supplied and fed. That for most of “maccaroni’s” the best way to get a good dinner was to lift hands up.
Unfortunately this not always worked…
I remember my father stories about Polish Karpathian Lancers and Poznanski Lancers Regiments which get assignment to guard freshly taken Italians.
At first they were quiet. Then when their expectations were not met - only occasional cigarettes, plain food, no luxury barracks as Geneva Convention stated… they started a small revolt…
Poles did not wanted to kill and British red caps took over. They knew how to beat effectively and in a couple of hours Italians were happy.
Sorry for OFF-Topic. Nothing to do with Italian Navy…
Personally I think Italian and Vichy French Navies were bigger threat for Allies than German Kriegsmarine…
Cheers,
Lancer44
In the main I think that the Italians suffered from lack of equipment and training. For the Navy, as with everything else they had a few units that excelled amoung th majority that were dire. The midget submarines in the Med were exceptional and pointed the way for the allied ones.
As for their submarines, in no way were they as effective as the Germans. If the above figures are accurate then the Italian submarines barely managed to sink 1 ship each, maybe that is cost effective, but I’m not sure about that.
I do recall reading something awhile ago regarding the pre-Afrika Corp desert campaign in which about 36,000 British troops washed up well over 100,000 Italians. It was said that one of the Italian soldiers’ biggest complaint (other than being conscripted and sent to a War that mostly he didn’t want nor would benefit him) was that the junior officers were very elitist under the fascist system, and had a completely different standard of living that was much higher, including access to wine, better food, and other luxuries which was often denied the average enlisted man/draftee.
I imagine that this may well apply to the navy as well.
I wonder if the Italians had different tactics than their German counterparts? Perhaps, like the Japanese submariners, they were more interested in targeting warships as opposed to the Wolf Packs attacking merchantmen?
The italians lost on many fronts some what due to Mussolini’s force . in Africa the general was conviced by Musolini that the attck of Egypt would be the final blow for Britain . Also in the 1939 Blitzkrieg the Italians were excluded makin Musolini Enter Libya.
The Italians also were forerunners in the area of elite underwater combat units. They engaged in sabotage and used manned torpedos that they called “pigs”. Anyone familiar with the Ecima (Decima?) Mas? Prince Valerio Borghese was the head of it. I believe the Italians began exploring this area during WWI, but actually developed it more during WWII and had a few successes during WWII. I just got my dad a book about it for Christmas so if anyone is interested in this I’ve got the book right here to refer to.
While the German U-boats sank far more shipping than anyone else put together, if you base their effectiveness on the amount of shipping sunk per submarine lost, the result is quite surprising.
USA submarines are way top in this list
USN, 52 submarines lost, a total of 1314 enemy vessels sunk, or 23 enemy ships sunk per sub lost. Tonnage wise 101,923 tons of enemy shipping sunk per sub lost.
British submarines are next on the list
RN, 75 submarines lost, a total of 697 enemy vessels sunk, or 9.3 ships sunk per sub lost. Tonnage wise 20,266 tons of enemy shipping sunk per sub lost.
German submarines are third
U-Boats, 781 lost, a total of 2,828 enemy vessels sunk, or 3.6 ships sunk per sub lost. Tonnage wise 18,565 tons of enemy shipping sunk per sub lost.
I don’t have complete figures for the other nations, but what I have is this;
Italy, 12,195 tons of enemy shipping sunk per sub lost.
Japan, 6,923 tons of enemy shipping sunk per sub lost
Soviet Union, 3.692 tons of enemy shipping sunk per sub lost.
The Italians mainly operated in the Med, the shallow and clear waters of this sea, made Wolf Pack tactics far too dangerous for the submarines, there also wasn’t the large convoys there that made it worthwhile in the Atlantic.
I recall reading of this long ago. I believe the Italian frogmen were considered the elite special ops of their time. I think we need a thread on this from those wiser than I…
The Italian crews of the pigs (or human torpedoes) were said to be much better treated than much of the rest of the forces. The unit was said to have very little distinction between Officers and Ranks, which existed elsewhere. There was, for example, no seperation for eating and living.
The modernday COMSUBIN (Comando Raggruppamento Subacquei ed Incursori Teseo Tesei) is a descendant of the Decima Flottiglia MAS (X MAS).
The Italians pioneered the use of frogmen and human torpedoes. Great Britain and Germany soon followed. Italy’s frogman group were formed in 1938, 1a Flottiglia Mezzi d’Assalto (1st Flotilla Assault Vehicles), which was renamed in 1940 as the Decima Flottiglia MAS (10th Flotilla Assault Vehicles, X-MAS).
It is a matter of pride in the Italian Navy that Italy’s Naval Special Forces pre-date both the U.S. Navy Underwater Demolition Teams, formed in 1943 and forerunners of the better-known SEALs, and the British Royal Marines Special Boat Service formed as an offshoot of the Special Air Service in 1941.
The official Italian name for their craft was Siluro a Lenta Corsa “Slow-running torpedo”, but the Italian divers nicknamed it maiale (Italian for “pig”; plural maiali) because it was difficult to steer. The British copies were named Chariot, but htye were pretty much the same design.
The first attack by human torpedo was in 1918 by the Italians when Raffaele Paolucci and Raffaele Rossetti rode a torpedo-like craft (Mignatta) into Pola harbour, they sank the Austrian battleship Viribus Unitis and the freighter Wien using limpet mines.
They had no breathing sets and had to keep their heads above water to breathe, and thus they were discovered and taken prisoners.
SMS Viribus Unitis was an Austro-Hungarian dreadnought battleship of the Tegetthoff class. After it was clear that Austria-Hungary had lost World War I, the Austrian government decided to give the ship, along with much of the fleet, to the newly formed State of Slovenes, Croats and Serbs to avoid handing the fleet to the Allies, since the new state had declared neutrality.
By 1943 the Italians had a 4 man, 33 feet long, frogman-carrier called Siluro San Bartolomeo or SSB it was going to be used to attack Gibraltar. Italy surrendered and the attack was called off.
In July 1944, a German Neger-type torpedo manned by Lt. Potthast heavily damaged the Polish light cruiser Dragon off the Normandy beaches.
ORP Dragon (formally HMS Dragon) was part of the Polish Navy in 1941, haveing been given to the Polish Navy after service with the Royal Navy. Commissioned in 1917, and was one of hte fastest built Destroyers. After the damage she was scuttled for use as a breakwater by the Mulberry harbour.
The Polish Navy, although fully Polish, were a part of the Royal Navy (essentially) for the war. Unlike the Free French who were pretty much independant, the Poles fought alongside the British and Commonwealth forces. The outbreak of World War II had caught the Polish nation and thus their Navy off guard and the navy was in a state of expansion. Lacking numerical superiority, Polish Naval commanders decided to withdraw the main fleet to Great Britain to join the Allied war effort (Operation Peking).
Human Torpedoes of world war 2.
Italian
Siluro a Lenta Corsa aka maiale (“pig”).
Siluro San Bartolomeo (Italian, St. Bartholomew Torpedo, also called SSB). It was never used in action.
British
Chariot Mark 1. 6.8 m long, 0.9 m wide, 1.2 m high, speed 2.5 knots , weight: 1.6 tonnes , maximum diving depth: 27 mm. Endurance 5 hours (distance would depend on water current)
Chariot Mark II, had two riders, who sat back to back.
German
Neger. An extreme form of a genuine manned torpedo that carried the weapon, a second torpedo, underneath which was launched at the target. Speed: 4 knots. One seat. in German Neger means “negro”.
Marder and Biber. Very small submarines which carried two torpedoes and one or two men.
There were other types which never ran into production.
Japanese
Kaiten. It was a steered fast torpedo and in practice was a suicide weapon.
Russian
Siren. It was made after 1945. Longer than a British or Italian Chariot because it carried 2 warheads, it had 2 riders, it was designed to exit through a submarine’s torpedo tube.
The torpedos are still used in different forms today for all manner of tasks, from the original use, to scientific and recreational uses.
In a cross over from my thread on Submarine Aircraft Carriers:
The Regia Marina (Italian Navy) developed, in the late 1920s, the Ettore Fieramosca, a submarine with a waterproof hangar for a small reconnaissance plane. They gave commissions to the Italian aircraft manufacturers Macchi and Piaggio for two prototypes. The Macchi M.53 and the Piaggio P.8 were developed by 1928, but the program for an Italian aircraft-carrying submarine was cancelled, and the hangar was removed from the submarine in December 1931, before the Ettore Fieramosca was delivered to the Italian navy.
She, like so many of the other Submarine Aircraft Carriers, proved to be not up to the task of operational cruises. She was used for training only from 1941 onwards.
Displacement.
Surfaced 1556 tons.
Submerged 1965 tons.
Speed
Surfaced 15 knots.
Submerged 8 knots.
Length 84 meters.
Horse power of diesals motors 5200
Horse power of electric engines 2000
Weapons.
8 torpedo tubes with 14 reloads.
1 120mm gun.
4 13.2mm machine guns.
Crew 78.
The Ettore Fieramosca
A drawing of Ettore Fieramosca