Los Desaparecidos

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#1

There has been much talk in various threads about the Dirty War in Argentina, and even how that might well have been extended to the Falklands had a few blokes not pitched up to hoof out the invaders.

With the advent of democratic government in the Argentine, many people have come forward with tales of abduction and torture at the hands of some of the lowlifes that took part in this war against their own people.

1000ydstare has already alluded to Captain Adolfo Scilingo and the despatching of live prisoners from Hercs in “The Air War” thread, but many more people had knowledge of these flights so where are they now ?

There must have been a fair number of civil servants involved to a lesser or greater degree, are any of them still working in the more enlightened system there ?

For the answers to these and many, many more questions tune into this thread on your favourite forum at the same time tomorrow.

#2

How is this relevant to the Falklands War though? Please demonstrate what the above post will bring to the discussions about this topic.

#3

I can’t actually demonstrate what it will bring as I don’t know what people will post, but talk of the Dirty War had been circulating around the world for some time prior to the Argentine invasion, and it would be astonishing if none of this had reached the Islanders’ ears.

The thought of midnight knocks would have been reason enough for the FI population to have dreaded the spectre of living under the Junta, and their thoughts are very germane to the conflict.
At least one member of the invasion force had been involved in murders of civilians, were there really no more ?.

The other subject is how many of those not yet apprehended are still working within the present government, and will they, with their laudable pride in their country, ever reach a position whereby they can influence public and governmental opinion that another unfortunate conflict takes place ?

#4

It is quite relevant in one way, the fears of the Islanders, and possibley another reason why the boys were sent down quick sharp.

After all you can’t leave murderous torture lovers roving over a captured land bent on mischief.

Likewise, these acts show (in a critical light that some may not approve of) the political beasts that moved within the countries head sheds.

WRT whether this was relevant I will also complete the article from LRO magazine that I was posting in the Landrovers thread. Mainly I stopped because I was busy. but

There was a quite terrorfing Argentine officer prowling around the Islands. The locals report he was from some Int unit (maybe he was from the Argentine Navies Mechanical School, which teaches Naval Mechanics and also has a small sideline as the centre for interrogation).

#5

From later on in the same article.

#6

It has some relevance.

  1. One of the concerns of the British Government was how the islanders would be treated by the Argentines. If they did that to their own people how would they react to 2000 bloody-minded, obstinate Falkland Islanders?

  2. I was reading some of the Islander’s accounts of the occupation. Gerald Cheek was one of the islanders interned by the Argentines on West Falkland. When they came to arrest him, they told him his family didn’t have to go. He was genuinely afraid that when they put him on the plane it was a one way trip and had to make the appalling decision to leave his loved ones behind, as he saw it, for their own safety. The reputation engendered by the “dirty war” is among the reasons many Islanders cite for the opposition to negotiations on sovereignty.

  3. I would personally be interested to know from our Argentine colleagues what happened to some of the officers sent back by Comodoro Carlos Bloomer Reeve. One in particular I’m thinking of is Major Particio Dowling, who many Islanders regarded as epitomising the “Argentine Terror Machine” (quoting from one of the eye witness testimonies). Many consider that if it wasn’t for the influence of decent officers like Comodoro Reeve the occupation could have turned unpleasant. I believe Dowling was implicated in the “Dirty War” as was Alfredo Astiz, the commander on South Georgia.

  4. The Argentines had detailed personal dossiers on many of the Islanders, they deported many who they thought might be a problem. You have to wonder what they were prepared for, it does indicate that the Argentine military intended to exorcise political dissent on the islands.

#7

Some good info here

The islanders efforts to disrupt the Argentine rule
http://www.guardian.co.uk/falklands/story/0,11707,657857,00.html

The Observer’s defence correspondent, Ian Mather intended to cover the Falklands War from the ‘other side’ - but was thrown in jail for its duration
http://www.guardian.co.uk/falklands/story/0,,2047324,00.html

Ex-Argentinian troops file Falklands lawsuit

A group of Argentinian veterans of the Falklands conflict have filed a lawsuit claiming their superiors killed and tortured their own troops during the 10-week war in 1982.

…

Conscripts returning to the mainland after Britain reclaimed the remote South Atlantic islands in June 1982 were warned by superiors not to reveal practices that took place or that their families could suffer.

“We believe the torture that took place in Las Malvinas (Falklands), the staking and similar actions by the military, were a continuation of what they practised in clandestine detention,” Orlando Pascua, one of the claimants, told Página 12 newspaper (in Spanish).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/falklands/story/0,,2056933,00.html

‘Nice Argies, Nasty Argies’

The Argentine who caused most fear was the “sinister and dangerous” head of military police intelligence, Major Patricio Dowling, who personified “the Argentine terror machine”. He had detailed personal dossiers on Islanders and carried out arbitrary house searches and arrests. In one incident at Neil and Glenda Watson’s Long Island Farm, Dowling pointed a weapon at their young daughter Lisa and repeatedly ordered her to stand up. Lisa repeatedly said no and continued sucking her thumb, until Dowling gave up.

Dowling was ordered home part way through the occupation by two “decent” senior Argentine officers. Comodoro Carlos Bloomer Reeve, described as “the acceptable face of Argentina”, a man of “humanity and bravery” who did a great deal to protect Islanders from the excesses of their compatriots in what he regarded as a misguided adventure. He was amiable, always smiling, not politically driven, having previously lived with his family and made friends with Islanders in 1975/1976 when he ran the Argentine Air Force passenger service to the Falklands. His 1982 task was to organise an interim military administration, helped by naval Captain Barry Melbourne Hussey, “a man of humane principles” who worked to help Islanders.

Orders were that Islanders were to be regarded as Argentine citizens and treated well. In these two officers, Graham Bound writes, “Islanders had gained powerful friends who, though Argentines, proved that fundamental decency could survive when all other strands of civilised behaviour were unravelling.”

From http://www.falklands.info/history/hist82article19.html

#8

And more

Imprisoned at Goose Green and Fox Bay

After air raids on Goose Green and Stanley, the Argentines forcibly imprisoned all Goose Green residents in the community hall - 115 people including 43 children and two people over eighty, at first with no food or bedding, and only two toilets. In breach of the Geneva Convention, they were kept in a building not marked as for civilian detainees and not provided with shelters against air and artillery bombardment. The prisoners lifted the floorboards to dig dank uncomfortable bunkers for safety as bombs and shells exploded.

They were not held as hostages but because the Argentines were paranoid about spies and fifth columnists. Convinced the prisoners were transmitting radio messages, the Argentines frequently carried out searches which no one escaped, not even four-month old Matthew McMullen. “They would look in his nappy while the watching adults hoped Matthew had a special surprise for them!” They got a message to the Catholic priest Monsignor Daniel Spraggon, who remonstrated with the Argentines to relieve their plight.

A group of Stanley citizens were suddenly rounded up to be incarcerated together at Fox Bay. These included Brian and Owen Summers, Gerald Cheek, Stuart Wallace, and George and Velma Malcolm, who describes her arrest with characteristic bluntness: "A big burly bumptious bugger said: “You’re going to camp… He had drawn his pistol and was standing over me. I said: ‘You don’t need that gun. I’m not likely to do anything silly.’” The book describes their experiences as “demeaning and terrifying”.

Curfews, deportation and community spirit

“Shared dangers and self-help brought the community together. People who had bickered for years became firm friends.” Compassion also extended to Argentine conscripts who were given food by Islanders.

There is a dramatic account of how three civilians - Sue Whitley, Doreen Bonner and Mary Goodwin - were killed and others injured in John Fowler’s house by a misdirected British Naval shell from HMS Avenger.

Curfews were imposed and Bill Luxton - “the famous vitriolic critic of the Argentines” - and his family from Chartres were forcibly deported to Britain. A positive side effect was that Bill gave the British forces useful intelligence information and launched a worldwide information campaigned condemning the Argentines.

From the same site.

#9

I think the topic has a lot of relevance, as much as the evils represented by Nazism do in evaluating Nazi expansionism and Allied responses to that expansionism and Nazi doctrine. Or substitute “fascist” or “Japanese militarist” or “repressive and brutal fascist dictatorship” for Nazi. Argentina in the 1970’s falls into the last category.

During the 1970s Argentina lived a period of widespread military repression on the civilian population. Under the pretext of the “war against subversion” the military and police authorities develped a machiavellic campaign of terror. All civil rights - freedom of expression, justice, association vote - were eliminated. Thousands of citizens were unjustly put in prison where they endured inhuman conditions and lived under the pain of torture and the fear of death day to day.

Nothing is more horrorific, however, that what was done to 30,000 people now known as “the disappeared”. Taken from their homes, blindfolded, beaten, they were taken to secret concentration camps, where they awaited, without knowing, amidst blows and torture, death.

In this page we will remember those responsible for the disappearances, for the torture and death of thousands of human beings. None of the responsible have been duly punished for their crimes. They live in freedom, enjoying all such things that they denied their victims.

As the Gallery grows we hope to highlight some of the worse human rights violators from Argentina. However, all those who collaborated with these people and the institutions they represented, with knowledge of what thdy did, have a moral responsability and a stain in their conscience and their hands that they will never be able to wash off.

http://www.desaparecidos.org/arg/tort/eng.html

Also

http://www.yendor.com/vanished/
http://lacc.fiu.edu/events_outreach/fulbright/project_08.pdf

The dead killed by the Argentinian fascist regime that started the Falklands war aren’t a dead issue for their mothers, who long maintained a vigil in the Plaza de Mayo in Buenos Aires.

These and related issues sit squarely in any consideration of the Falklands War as it was shortly after that War that Argentina reverted to democracy and Galtieri was subsequently charged with human rights offences relating to the Dirty War as well as mismanaging the war, the latter charge seeing him serve five years in prison.

As the Dirty War and the Falklands War were clearly linked in Argentinian minds after the Falklands War, there is every reason to link them in discussion here.

#10

On the subject of the mothers of the lost…

A quick synopis of the laws that were brought in to protect the murderers…

Ley de Punto Final (Full Stop Law) was passed by the National Congress of Argentina after the end of the military dictatorship of the Proceso de Reorganización Nacional (which ended in 1983).

The law dictates the end of investigation and prosecution against people accused of political violence during the dictatorship, up to the restoration of democratic rule on 10 December 1983. It was passed on 24 December 1986, after only a 3-week debate. Its text is very short; it has seven articles.

Article No. 5 excepts from the application of the law the cases of identity forgery and forced disappearance of minors.

It was proposed by the Radical administration of President Raúl Alfonsín as a means to stop the escalation of trials against military and others, after the Trial of the Juntas had dealt with the top of the military hierarchies.

In the Chamber of Deputies, 114 deputies voted for the law, 17 against, and 2 abstained; in the Senate, 25 senators voted for, and 10 against.

Given the nature of the law, it’s apparent reason for proposal the support is quite shocking.

It’s brother law is Ley de Obediencia Debida (Law of Due Obedience) also passed by the National Congress of Argentina after the end of the military dictatorship.

The law was passed on 4 June 1987.

It states that it must be assumed, without admitting proof to the contrary, that all officers and their subordinates including common personnel of the Armed Forces, the Police, the Penitentiary Service and other security agencies cannot be legally punished by crimes committed during the dictatorship as they were acting out of due obedience, that is, obeying orders from their superiors (in this case, the heads of the military government, who had already been tried in the Trial of the Juntas).

This law was passed one year after the Ley de Punto Final in order to contain the discontent of the Armed Forces.

It effectively exempted military personnel under the rank of Colonel from responsibility for their crimes, which included forced disappearances, illegal detentions, torture and murders.

Its text is rather short, with only 7 articles, the second of which contains an exception (the law does not apply to cases of rape, disappearance or identity forgery of minors, or extensive appropriation of real estate).

The Ley de Obediencia Debida and the Ley de Punto Final were repealed by the National Congress in August 2003, which allowed for the re-opening of cases that involved crimes against humanity.

The first of such cases, which involved the former Buenos Aires Provincial Police second-in-command Miguel Etchecolatz, ended in September 2006 and laid down jurisprudence by acknowledging that the dictatorship’s state terrorism was a form of genocide.

Also Spain extradited some of the Murderers that they were holding for trial, as mentioned else where.

I bet the Nazis at Nuremburg kicked themselves they hadn’t thought of the Law of Due Obedience.

It is worth noting too Most of the top officers who were tried were sentenced to life imprisonment: Jorge Rafael Videla, Emilio Eduardo Massera, Roberto Eduardo Viola, Armando Lambruschini, Raúl Agosti, Rubén Graffigna, Leopoldo Galtieri, Jorge Anaya and Basilio Lami Dozo. But President Carlos Menem then pardoned the leaders of the junta in 1989–1990.

The only pardon I would give them would be checking someone had said what I thought they had said, suggesting they should be free.

Following persistent activism by the Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo and other associations, the amnesty laws were overturned by the Argentine Supreme Court nearly twenty years later, in June 2005.

As we can see Argentina is a strange political climate with many dark secrets and bizarre laws. How the UN haven’t got involved in sorting the Dirty War out is remarkable.

#11

OK, I’m convinced here. Thanks for the explanations, however please keep your ‘Dirty War’ posts and theme within the context of how this had an impact on the Falklands War and the personalities involved.

Cheers.

#12

They did.

It was the “I was only following orders.” defence, commonly called the Nuremberg defence.

It was rejected by the court.

As it should have been, and generally has been since. Including when Lieutenant Calley offered it to justify his My Lai massacre.

#13

The Nuremberg defence wasn’t an actual law though.

I was under the impression that this law would be highly suspect and possibly even illegal in it’s self.

Good to see international cooperation on such matters though. Those suspected of the “dirty War” crimes were all but prisoners in their own country. When they left to visit Spain they were arrested, even Mexico deported a visiter to Spain for trial.

It is just remarkable that such laws could be passed in Argentina. And that the guilty persons responsible (ultimately) for these actions and of course the Falklands invasion/debacle were later pardoned.

#14

I see your point.

Although even if the Nazis had passed such a law during their regime, I expect that it would have been held invalid, or overturned, or otherwise nullified at Nuremberg.

The Argentinians got away with it because, unlike the Nazis, they were never subjected to higher authority.

It’s not area I know anything about, but if such a matter came before the International Criminal Court would it be able to ignore domestic law for the purpose of deciding a war crimes or cimes against humanity matter?

#15

How is this relevant to the Falklands War though? Please demonstrate what the above post will bring to the discussions about this topic.

There is no relationship whatsoever Firefly.

The so called “dirty war” started in 1970-71, it was a conflict between the Argentine Army and Navy security services (the AAF dint participate) and was fought against two major factions.

One was the marxist E.R.P (Ejercito Revolucionario del Pueblo, peoples revolutionary Army) and the Peronist leftist catholic (complicated ideology isnt ?) Montoneros and his supporters.

The E.R.P was more or less crushed by the year of 1977, Montoneros in other hand survived longer because the leftist peronist ideology sucedeed to attract a big part of the youth upper classes of the big cities.

Obviously as everybody know not only those were kidnapped and/or tortured and/or killed, but also several inocent people.

However since this sad war did not took place in the Falklands/Malvinas it should not be included here.

My suggestion is to move all this to Off-topic Military and/or merge with “The Argentine Military” topic.

#16

Seconded on this one.

#17

Done…this one doesnt really fit into the F&M section.

#18

The relevance of this thread to the F/M forum has been made immensely clear in eight of the first nine posts on page one !

Moving, or worse yet merging it, would lend credence to any germ of an idea that the invasion was ‘benign’ or that the Dirty War would not follow into any area over which the Junta had infuence.

Most sources indicate that the Dirty War ended in 1983, some even pinpointing it to 10 Dec 83, when the democratic government led by Raul Alfonsin took charge of Argentina. If my memory serves, the Falklands conflict* started on 02 Apr 1982 and ended with the surrender of the Junta-controlled Argentine forces some 43 days later on 14 Jul 1982, ie well within the consensus timeframe.

That there were few midnight knocks between the morning of the invasion until the liberation in no way detracts from the very real fears held by the Islanders’, that the Junta would continue it’s Gestapo-style tactics in the FI.
It was due in no little part to offrs such as Comodoro Carlos Felipe Bloomer-Reeve and Captain Barry Melbourne Hussey, that the worst elements of the Junta’s hit squads were unable to go about their business as normal. But how long would that state of affairs lasted had there been a different outcome to the war ?

Perhaps a more accurate title would be in order ?

But no matter, these decisions are taken in the rarified heights, it is not for mere peóns like myself to judge.

  • If the start of the war is taken from the main invasion. Should the short occupation of South Georgia be included then the date would be 19 Mar 82 - even deeper within the time-span of the Dirty War.
#19

It aint moving! Feel free to continue the thread. :wink:

#20

Qed

:wink: