Mass Grave of 1,800 Germans Found in Poland


In this Jan. 7, 2009 file photo, human remains are seen after they were unearthed by construction workers in Malbork, northern Poland. Construction workers in northern Poland have unearthed a World War II-era mass grave containing what are believed to be the bodies of 1,800 German men, women and children who disappeared during the Soviet Army’s march to Berlin.
AP Photo

Updated: 01/12/09 03:10 PM
Poland: Workers find WWII mass grave of Germans
By MONIKA SCISLOWSKA
Associated Press Writer

Construction workers in northern Poland have unearthed a World War II-era mass grave containing what are believed to be the bodies of 1,800 German men, women and children who disappeared during the Soviet Army’s march to Berlin.

Poles digging at the site of a planned luxury hotel in Malbork - which was called Marienburg and was part of Germany during the war - excavated a bomb crater at the foot of the city’s famous 13th century Teutonic Knights fortress, authorities said Monday.

The workers found a small group of bodies in late October and halted digging to allow prosecutors to investigate. After resuming work weeks later, the workers turned up dozens, and then hundreds, more corpses. They believe more may be found.

It was not immediately clear how the bodies ended up in the crater but initial examinations by Polish and German experts have concluded that they are likely the remains of German citizens still classified as “missing” more than 60 years after the end of the war, town official Piotr Szwedowski told The Associated Press.

Millions of civilians were killed or declared missing during World War II. Many of those who disappeared in the chaos of wartime Europe are still unaccounted for.

“Examination of the remains and the circumstances confirm that these are the missing German inhabitants of Malbork,” Szwedowski said. “I have no doubt it is them.”

As the Red Army was advancing in early 1945, the inhabitants of Malbork were ordered to evacuate. Some refused, while others were prevented from doing so by the general chaos of the nearing front.

The Soviets bombarded the city with heavy artillery in their assault. After the defeated German military retreated, the remaining civilians found themselves at the mercy of Red Army troops. There are no known living witnesses of what happened, Szwedowski said.

The bodies were buried naked without any possessions, he said.

“We found no trace of any clothes, shoes, belts, glasses - not even dentures or false teeth,” he said.

Some 100 skulls - primarily of adults - have bullet holes in them, suggesting these people could have been executed, but it is still unclear how the others were killed, Szwedowski said.

“We don’t know if these (civilians) are direct or indirect victims of the artillery barrage but the bullet holes suggest executions in some cases,” he said.

More forensic tests will be carried out before the remains are laid to rest either in Malbork or a German military cemetery in Stary Czarnow, near the northwestern city of Szczecin.

“These people died in such an inhuman way, were dumped so inhumanely, that we need to bury them in dignity and respect,” Szwedowski said.

BuffaloNews.com

This has been all over the papers here last week. “Polskaweb.eu” assumes that these people were not killed during the fightings or executed by the Red Army but that polish Militia was responsible.
There has been a commotion in Germany when published that Polish authorities did not react for some time after the first skeletons were found, nobody cared about “desecrations and private excavations of souvenir hunters”.

The location of Malbork (german “Marienburg” till 1945):

http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/vermischtes/2009/01/07/1800-tote/deutsches-massengrab-in-polen-entdeckt.html

Don’t know if Bild is the best source, FTG…

It isn’t for sure. However concerning my post it’s just the source for the pictures.

I just now saw the article on fox news. as new constrution takes place they’ll find more no doubt

How many more are still to be found ?

According to the Red Cross, about 4800 former citizens of Marienburg (Malbork) were missing after the end of war (their fate remained unknown).

I found some info (from November 2008) about the mass graves of German soldiers at Hel Peninsula. First, when exhumation started, the number of bodies was about 160. After few weeks the authorities announced that there may be more than 700 soldiers buried. It would be the biggest German war grave ever found in Poland.

Update:
By fall 2008 they found 1018 bodies. The exhumations will be continued in 2009.

It was occured probaly during the post-war ethnical cleansing of Polish territory out from Ethnical Germans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Germans_after_World_War_II#Pre-Potsdam_deportations_.28May_-_July_1945.29
Many peoples died or even were killed.And nobody cared to bury bodies in separate graves.

It seems that the number of missing citizens of Marienburg is lower.
According to the Volksbund Deutsche Kriegs gräber fürsorge, the number of the missing was estimated at 1840 (they have a full list of names).
The exhumation led by Mr Wolfgang Dietrich and his german team were supposed to be resumed today.

What do we actually know about this?
The only 2 articles I have seen are these:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,600216,00.html
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D95LOD4G0&show_article=1

But these 2 are very shallow… End even though Mr.Szwedowski sais: “I have no doubt it is them.” I have my concerns… At least the information in the articles does not reveal anything at all…

Are there more? I guess there should be more info in German and Polish sources, right?

BTW, speaking of naked victims, what about these:
http://www.ww2incolor.com/dramatic/WW2+einsatz7.html
http://www.ww2incolor.com/dramatic/ww2+mizocz1.html
http://9may.ru/08.03.1942/inform/m3356

Soviet soldiers did commit many barbaric reprasals in Germany. But it whould normally constitute in trowing a grenade in to house or a cellar or such spontaneous and rage like acts. But such methodology as “no trace of any clothes, shoes, belts, glasses—not even dentures or false teeth” is beyond them.

Two books about Marienburg in 1945 in German:
http://books.google.de/books?id=1TQxAAAACAAJ&dq=marienburg+1945&lr=
http://books.google.de/books?id=KUSfMgAACAAJ&dq=marienburg+1945&lr=

Have not read them…

Well, if you go by flamethrowerguy’s source, it was not a reprisal act from the Red Army, but rather Polish Militia, which would move it away from reprisal and towards ethnic cleansing.

Maybe it will be good if someone translate the text into english as i am not good with deutsch . :wink:

The link he posted is to a very unreliable and usually very biased German “newspaper”. He only used it for the images, he got his information from the link he mentioned above the pictures.

I wonder how they got to such conclusions.

Any ideas?

As Egorka said, the Russians didn’t typically commit organized Mass Murders, and the sheer size of the grave, coupled with the fact that many had bullet wounds to the back of the head, indicate just that.

And since they were German, it obviously weren’t Germans who did it…

This leaves local militia / former partisans / secret government units (conspiracy!!!) as the most likely suspects.

Read this one: http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=148025
There is some additional info, including why some people think thar it might be Polish responsibility.

As far as I can see, we have so far nothing to conclude anything…
In an article from the 14 of January:
"We hope to find some leads because we still know virtually nothing about the mass grave and the victims, " said Piotr Wojciechowski of the district public prosecutor’s office in Malbork

We have a lot of assumptions, though. :wink:

Do you wonder?
Say that the Polish forces/milicia/community didn’t commit the mass murdering of Germans?Or somebody else?
I have an idea .
http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_east.html

ATROCITIES IN POLAND (Polish Revenge)
Unable to stem the onrush of German forces during the invasion of their country, Polish soldiers and civilians started fleeing eastwards. It was during this flight to the east that the ethnic German civilians, resident in Poland for many years, received the full impact of the spite and hate stored up in the hearts of the fleeing Polish soldiers and their civilian followers. Between September 4 and September 8, 1939, in the communities of Eichdorf, Hopfengarten and Narzheim near Bromberg, the polish soldiers began an orgy of murder and rape that is beyond belief. German houses were entered and the occupants arrested and then murdered. Not all were shot, many were brutally put to death by all sorts of tools and their bodies severely mutilated. As the soldiers left to search for more German houses, their civilian helpers were left behind to plunder and steal and in most cases, to set the house on fire. Many of the German women were raped before being shot. During this retreat from the west, the Polish soldiers, together with the communist civilian irregulars, were responsible for the deaths of many thousands of German residents. At a later investigation, the testimonies of 593 witnesses established the fact that at least 3,841 named ethnic Germans were murdered by the Poles prior to the full German occupation. These revenge murders were carried out as early as April, 1939 in the Polish Corridor. In September, 1939 these Volksdeutsche formed themselves into Self-Protection units known as Selbschutz and came under the control of the SS and later under the Ordungspolizei (Order Police). The infamous reputation that it earned caused it to be disbanded on 30th of November, 1939. These massacres were one of the causes that gave Hitler the excuse to invade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom
The Jedwabne pogrom (or Jedwabne massacre) was a massacre of Jewish people living in and near the town of Jedwabne in Poland that took place in July 1941 during World War II.

Although responsibility for the massacre had long been laid at the feet of the Nazi Einsatzgruppen (death squad), recent scholarship by historian Jan T. Gross has indicated that the murders were carried out by Polish neighbors of the victims. The Polish Institute of National Remembrance subsequently issued findings in support of Gross’ claims.Whether and how far the occupying German forces were involved remains the subject of dispute among historians. According to Gross’ Neighbors: The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland, 1,600 Jews lived in Jedwabne before the pogrom, of whom seven survived the incident.

And how did 1 Polish Army treat the GErmans pows

The Polish will of revenge to GErmans was such great - that it getting to bother to take the information from Germans pows.
The CHief of NKVD of 1-belorusshian front Cerov, complained to Beria, that soldiers of 1-Polish Army ( that fought with Red Army) treat the GErmans pows with senseless cruelty. He reported that the cuptured Germans pows very often don’t reach the pows camps- the poles simply shoted them all.
For instance in 2-rifle regiment of 1- polish division there were cuptured the 80 germans pows, but ONLY two of them have arrived to the headquarters The rest have been killed in a way.After the cross-examination, they both have been sended to the Army intelligence department for the next talks. But they haven’t reached it, they have been shoted right near the hearquarters by poles.
Antony Beevor “Berlin The Downfall 1945”.
Chapter 5 :Rush to Oder"