MINES!!!!!

Other Wars Falklands/Malvinas War
#21

The other problem is that the mines move due to the type of ground.

As for de-mining expertise, I think you will find that the RE teams knowledge and experience is very high on this front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mine_clearance

Currently, the main methods used for humanitarian demining on land are manual detection using metal detectors and prodders, detection by specially trained mine detection dogs, and mechanical clearance using armoured vehicles fitted with flails, tiller or similar devices. In many circumstances, the only method that meets the United Nations’ requirements for effective humanitarian demining, the International Mine Action Standards, [1] is manual detection and disarmament

Very good over view and answers a number of your questions Panzerknacker. Go down to Landmine Situation.

http://maic.jmu.edu/JOURNAL/5.2/focus/falklands.htm

#22

Personally I would have demanded the Engrs from Argentina

We are back ¡¡¡¡ :mrgreen:

Very good over view and answers a number of your questions Panzerknacker. Go down to Landmine Situation.

http://maic.jmu.edu/JOURNAL/5.2/focus/falklands.htm

Thxs for the link.

#23

Incidentally I ve found some media about the demining operations.

http://rapidshare.com/files/22251715/Desminado.wmv.html

#24

If they were available they could be used, but as 2nd of Foot states someone has to go over the area by finger touch to confirm that the area is clear. Really clear.

There can be no or little chance of an undetected mine going off. Different risks accepted for military clearance.

I wonder what would have happened if we had kept all of the invasion force on the Islands “untill every last mine has been picked up and accounted for”?! :smiley:

The mines incidentaly are another reason why the Islanders don’t have too much affectionfor the Argies.

#25

Dont think so, since is no shared ownership of the islands, there is no shared responsability. Do you see any british bomb squad in Hannover, Hamburg or Dresden ?

wonder what would have happened if we had kept all of the invasion force on the Islands “untill every last mine has been picked up and accounted for”?!

Tha was the idea, but this plan was cancelled by reason I ve explained already.

he mines incidentaly are another reason why the Islanders don’t have too much affectionfor the Argies.

Oh…they probably werent our fans before

#26

Dont think so, since is no shared ownership of the islands, there is no shared responsability. Do you see any british bomb squad in Hannover, Hamburg or Dresden ?

While I didn’t see them, as I wasn’t born… yes. British EOD/Bomb Disposal engineers were in use all over occupied Germany after the end of WW2. Also British/allied supported German EOD types.

Incidentaly, even today, some EOD finds are dealt with by the British EOD as opposed to German. Just depends who is closer. Likewise Poland Exercise areas have had UXO disposed of by British EOD teams. Often it depends who has the knowledge, British EOD teams often have better knowledge of British dropped bombs.

Like wise Britain still contributes to French and Belgium efforts at EOD on the WW1 battlefields that still yield a harvest nearly 100 years after the event.

British EOD still demines/makes safe danger zones all over the place. Including Iraq, Afgan, Cyprus, the Balkans and South Africa. Also Kenya.

The Cyprus based Argentine UN troops call in British EOD to defuse mines and booby traps found by them. I know this, as they have done it while I was there, I took the call. They have no EOD assets in place.

Your point regards the Falklands being?

That people can lay such evil devices and then just flounce off in a hissy fit because they were defeated perhaps?

Bosnians and Kosovans from all sides are currently working to defuse their legacy minefields. Not necesarily the men that laid them, but certainly their brothers and sisters.

#27

I guess there is few excuses then…however since the UN have no task for Argentine military the islands is very unlikely to see this.

The Argentine sematary is the island is forbbiden to have flags…so you think that somebody would allow the Army again…not a chance.

#28

To be honest it doesn’t work that way.

The UN raise a request of what personnel they need.

Ie we need 2 inf bns, 1 tank bn, a sig bn and a engr bn (for example).

Then countries put forward what they have got.

It obviously gets a bit complicated when you add specifics such as Alpine troops, EOD or similar.

The UN can only request troops, not demand or automaticaly use.

It is strange, but Pakistan is the country that provides the most troops for UN forces.

I think the Argentines have a Infantry Bn, reinforced. in Cyprus. It has a few more men than the average Bn and a few extra support bods, drivers etc.

#29

De-mining does not have to be done by military personnel
In many countries it is done by civilians trained by Military or Ex military personel.

Contributing to the cost of removing the mines or a civilian de-mining team would not be as politically sensitive as actually having troops doing the job.

As for clearing a minefield (as opposed to just breaching it for an assault) it takes a huge amount of effort ‘Been there done it got the T shirt’

Moreover, heavy warfare left numerous areas burdened with landmines. Authorities at Port Stanley point out that there are currently 117 mine fields on the island containing approximately 25,000 anti-personnel and anti-vehicle mines

In all, 4,220 mines and 2,713,658 pieces of UXO have been removed from the islands.

These mine fields are dispersed over a total area of 20 sq. km throughout the vicinities of Port Stanley, Port Howard, Fox Bay and Goose Green. The UN declared that there were nine different types of AT and AP landmines used during the conflict. The five AT mines are the No6 (Israel), SB-81 (Italy), FMK-3 plastic blast mine (Argentina), C-3-A/B (Spain) and the M1A1 (United States). The four AP mines (approx. 5,000) are the No4 (Israel), SB-33 (Italy), FMK-1 plastic blast mine (Argentina) and the P-4-B (Spain).

#30

Ex-military UXO techs are very expensive, and notoriously slow…

#31

To fully clear a minefield or even be able to declare an area Free From Ordanance of all types takes a very very long time.

With no records of types or spacings not even of quantitys and whether any are booby trapped how fast would you work.

While breaching a minefield at night we were supposed to clear a metre a minute with the prodders in actual practice it was more like 1 m every 5 mins and you still would be unable to find deep buried mines (never mind the rear twitching everytime you hit a stone or other hard object buried)

#32

In all, 4,220 mines and 2,713,658 pieces of UXO have been removed from the islands.

More that 2 million ?? was the Somme, Paeschendale or Verdun fought in Malvinas maybe ?

#33

A “UXO” can be a bullet, or a piece of something else…

#34

True. But often “safety” is used as an excuse to take it very easy…

#35

I don’t blame them.

So would I be, when there is none of the urgency which may accompany military operations.

#36

As I said there is a big difference between ‘Clearing an area’ and a combat style breach.

To clear and area you have to be 100% sure there is no ordanance/mines of any kind at any depth.

Many onlookers seem to be of the opinion that it can be done quicker ‘When I offered them the kit they buggered off quite sharpish’
One little mistake and you very very rarely get another chance

While in Bosnia we had an area that was declared safe by another countries Engineers ‘A week later on bloke missing half a foot another his family jewels’ and that mine was on the surface not buried.

#37

The typical reply of someone who does not actually understand the nature of fighting and the terminology used.

UXO - Unexploded Ordanance (Anything that could and or should go bang)

#38

So…in my house there is about 1600 UXOs. .22, 9mm, 12 gauge and 16 gauge.

Can I call the British army here ?

Honestly I think “Unexploded ordinance” are big words for a 7.62mm cartrigde.

#39

Panzerknacker
Re: MINES!!!
So…in my house there is about 1600 UXOs. .22, 9mm, 12 gauge and 16 gauge.

Can I call the British army here ?

Honestly I think “Unexploded ordinance” are big words for a 7.62mm cartrigde.

Ah the limited knowledge which goes along way

But as an aside this topic was about how long to remove the mines from the Falklands ‘Not your living room’ and since you got the number of mines wrong by a long shot and even contradicted yourself in posts on here with the quantitys it may be best to actulally talk about things you really do know about and listen to others who actually know about the subject instead of turning all talks on the Falkland Islands into ‘They belong to us and you are all wrong pissing contests’

Every bullet, mine, bomblet, bomb, arty shell, grenade etc has the potential to kill

1 Do you have little kids running round picking up shiney interesting stuff in your house.

2 Do you have domesticated animals freely wandering about your sitting room.

Dont try to compare a battlefield with your comfortable house which is supervised with all ammunition ‘Hopefully’ secured away from inquisitive hands.

#40

But as an aside this topic was about how long to remove the mines from the Falklands ‘Not your living room’ and since you got the number of mines wrong by a long shot and even contradicted yourself in posts on here

The numbers I gave were not completely wrong, some 5,000 and some mines did were buried by Army engineers, the problem was I wasnt aware that the Marines also emplaced several mines.

Not what was the quatity of that?

Honestly I dont know, in Argentine sources I find between 10,000 to 15.000, in other forum ( militaryphotos.net) some guy said 25,000 mines, ( actually I was quickly expelled for not agreeing with that figure)

Now…your figure of 4,220 mines seems more or less real, unfortunately with that denomination of UXOs putting in the same bag a Nato cartrigde and a 105 howitzer round did not help. It would be interesting to know the figures per type.

with the quantitys it may be best to actulally talk about things you really do know about and listen to others who actually know about the subject instead of turning all talks on the Falkland Islands into ‘They belong to us and you are all wrong pissing contests’

Silly, really silly, I dont remember putting that phrase here and I dont because I didnt put it. :rolleyes:
I was shocked by your figure of 2,713,658 million of UXOs because I know for sure that the Armed Forces did not deployed that quantity of mines and/or artillery shells, not even combining all the stock of 60,81,105,120 and 155mm.

But since the humble 7,62x51mm has been elevated to a new category …well that explain a lot of things.