More classic Iron man

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#1

I thought it would be fun to discuss where firearms are going.

I would also like to share something with you that I have never shared with anyone on the Internet -

I am the inventor of the Electric Bullet Cartridge and the Electric Primer. I invented them in the late 1980’s, and I designed four variations of the inventions. This technology is significant because it is, in my opinion, the future of firearms. It has broad implications. For example, since there is no firing pin involved, the weapon is more accurate because there is less movement and vibration. It could aslo make match rifles somewhat more accurate for professional competition shooting. In sniper rifles, the advantage is obvious.

Perhaps the greatest advantage of this technology is that since there is no mechanical firing mechanism (firing pin), the trigger would be an electronic switch, and the forces required to discharge an electic firearm are greatly less than that of traditional firearms, which ofcourse improves accuracy further.

However, I made a huge mistake. I did not patent the technology, and someone else did several years later. Since then, the invention has been liscenced by Remington Firearms and I am told the US military has liscenced the technology for research. Had I applied for a patent when I should have, today I would be a very rich man. I made my fortune, and lost it by not filing for a patent.

Nonetheless, I did create drawings of the invention and documents describing them, and mailed them to myself. After that, I placed the envelope containing the documents in a briefcase and left them there until last year, when I came across them, opened them, and after investigating, I discovered that a patent had been granted for my inventions to someone else 8 years after I had designed them and mailed them to myself.

I have never shared those documents with anyone other than immediate family and friends. However, I will have them scanned into JPG’s and post them here for you to view, hopefully tomorrow, but possibly Sunday evening. I will also scan the document I printed from the US Patent Office which shows the precise description of my invention and the patent granted for it to someone else.

I thought some of you might find it interesting. If you check back with this page by the end of the weekend, I will have the scanned images of the documents available.

#2

So the electric charge would set off the primer in the base of the round?
and a standard smokeless powder/cordite/propellant would expel the bullet from the case up the barrel toward the target?

Tell me more.

#3

Really? Wow! You didn’t have anything to do with the development of caseless ammunition did you?

#4

Electric ignition of firearms is not a mid -late 80’s concept though; http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html

#5

Wow, Ironman, amazing! Someone with no concept of adjustable sights, ballistics, terminology or firearm operating principles invented a whole new ignition system!

Wow, all the movement and vibration caused by such a small firing pin moving such a small distance causing inaccuracy - and there was me thinking that it was the LOCK TIME that was the significant factor, and that was why great lengths were taken to reduce this, and why Remington is now marketing electronic primers! But no, you’re right, it must have been all that vibration and movement caused by the firing pin moving that I can’t actually see when dry firing. I never considered that a firing pin weighing less than an ounce moving a distance of 1/2" or less could cause so much movement and vibration on a rifle weighing 9lb+, and that this could have such an effect on the accuracy of a weapon. And that this amount of movement would be so great that you would totally discount the problem of lock time when describing your invention!

And there was me thinking also that electric ignition had been used in firearms since WW2. Maybe I’m wrong, and the Rhinemetall-Borsig MK 108 aircraft cannon (amongst others, including the MG131) didn’t have electrical ignition http://www.luft46.com/armament/mk108.html.

But no, if you say that you invented the whole concept, then it must be so. :lol:

#6

If it were any other person posting, I’d have assumed this was fishing. The trouble here is that the claim is no less bold, unjustified and wrong than some claims previously posted in other areas. On the plus side, my flatmate has done well out of this as I mentioned it to him and he’s spent a happy morning reading up on electric priming systems.

#7

Wasn’t the wombat electrically fired?

#8

One pound’s worth of boiled sweets and a seat near the ring please, I think this is going to be a good fight. :lol: :twisted:

#9

I just got up, so a cup off coffee or two and I will go have the documents scanned.

There will be no fight. There is nothing to fight about. I make no claims other than I invented the things in 1986 (86-87?) and detailed them, and a patent was issued for them to someone else 8 years later. What you want to make of that is up to you. If someone else had the idea prior to that and did not apply for a patent either, they simply made the same mistake that I did (like the one who invented electricity or the steam engine :lol: ). However, it is true that had I applied for a patent at that time, I would have been granted it, and I would be very wealthy for it! :slight_smile:

The Electric Bullet Cartridge is as far as I know.

Oh? You mean a man with many years of firearms and hunting experience? You mean the man who was the first one in that thread that you refer to who mentioned that a practical bullet trajectory is curved or that compensation must be made when firing a weapon at range, which prompted Preatorian to post a chart explaining what I had said? I guess you did not grasp what I said at that time.

Is that like your claim that the Roman Arch and cement meant nothing to architecture and engineering? :lol:

I’ll let you in on something: In match rifle competition, for example, the delay caused by the firing mechanism (all parts combined) and the forces of the firing pin and trigger pull are the reason that match rifles have 2-stage adjustable triggers; to eliminate as much of those forces as is possible because they cause imperfections in aim. Now since you just showed us that you do not understand the significance of these things to the persuit of perfecting accuracy in firearms, I suggest that you keep your ignorance to yourself from now on. :lol:

No patent was issued for an electric bullet cartridge or electic primer until the year 2000, at least, not in the US.

#10

Oi calm down calm down, in the style of a greasy Scouser!!!

It was I and not Man of Stoat that mishandled your “bullet rise” comment so get your facts right before you bestow my failings on other people!

You stated that electronic ignition was going to prevent vibration and recoil and thus enhance accuracy!

As I understand it, the breech moving forward and rearward in quick succession is what causes the movement on the weapon, and the breech will still ahve to move to allow the introduction and removal of the cartridge after it has been fired regardless of what it is that actually initiates the reaction within the cartridge, If you wanted to balance the weapon you would have to created a weapon with no moving parts! better known as a stick!

However I shall withold judgement as to whether you have actually “invented” this technology ahead of others because i feel that your case might prove a useful premise in my case against Ugg!

I have designed a device to enable the moving of heavy objects whereby Through rotation about a fixed loci I might maintain a weight at a fixed height above the ground and due to the distance between ground and axis of rotation always being the same the only resistance i shall receive is from the friction of the stationary shaft against the truning hub of the device I intend to call the “leehW”

I think it might revolutionise labour in the west country and enable horses and donkeys to tow sleds supported by leehw’s that I shall call traC’s I shall be the saviour of the west country industrial age,

Let me know how you get on, after that I intend to solve all of mens worries by selling bread in an already sliced fashion.
You and I IRONMAN with our inventions I think we could change history!

#11

Please clarify exactly what you mean by “Electric Bullet Cartridge”. So far, it looks like a variation on a concept so old it would be a ‘on-topic’ in the main part of this forum.

#12

Two words, Ironpan:

SPRING OPERATED

And do you forget your contention that semi-automatic wpns are per se less powerful than bolt-action or revolver wpns?

And all this (and more) from a guy who claims to have many years of firearms experience, yet has clearly never actually fired, nor even seen, a Garand or an M1 carbine!

:lol:

Yeah, and what do you mean by an “electric BULLET cartridge”? Is the bullet somehow electric?

I didn’t mention the roman arch - are you confusing me with someone else? Or are all those ranged against you just one superpersona to you, such that you can’t remember who said what?

Two stage triggers are an ergonomic thing, and have no influence on lock time (as you allude). You are right that they help to reduce imperfections in aim, but it’s for for ergonomic reasons.

I can’t help but notice the irony between your claim to have invented something already known with your decrying the re-invention of things like concrete :lol:

#13

More like your claim that Air and Nickel are of the same density. If you can make claims like this (and state that qualified engineers stating they aren’t are incredibly dumb) then you must expect any technical comments of yours to be taken with a lorryload of salt.
As for the Roman arch, it’s just a slightly modified arch as was previously known to the Greeks and Etruscans before the Romans came on the scene. I suspect their arches were largely that shape for stylistic reasons and convenience in manufacturing the formers to build them around - there is a good reason nobody builds Roman style arches any more, they’re pretty inefficient when it comes to material required.
Oh, and Cement isn’t a Roman invention either - it was used by the Assyrians, Babylonians and Egyptians at least before the Romans appeared. The only change the Romans made was in the type of mix used, as theirs was more similar to the modern mix. Conceptually the use of concrete was nothing new at the time.
The Romans were highly competent engineers, but frankly they invented virtually nothing - their genius was in improving existing designs (almost always Greek ideas).

<hoping this post doesn’t get edited/deleted by the moderators like the last one>

#14

“Assimilation” think “BORG”

#15

In all seriousness, electronic ignition won’t take off in a big way for small-arms (and particularly for military small-arms) for the following reasons:

Cost - electric primers are significantly more expensive than conventional
Waterproofing - water and electricity don’t mix and will lead to reliability issues, particularly in military wpns. Imagine if a bit of salt or corrosion caused a short-circuit between the terminals of the primer.
Batteries - dead batteries mean a gat that won’t go bang. OK, a broken firing pin means the same thing, but is less likely to happen than a battery running out.

A criticism of the Remington rifle with electric priming when reviewed for Gunmart in the UK was that the trigger-pull was terrible [feel, shot-to-shot consistency] compared to even a basic mechanical trigger and this then totally negated any ergonomic advantage of reduced lock-time. They considered that it was a nice idea, but a bit of a gadget that wouldn’t catch on in any serious way.

#16

I call shenannigans! Officer Barbrady! Shennanigans!

On another note, I have invented a propulsion method for aircraft. It is based on the Brayton Cycle, and will revolutionise the aircraft industry. It is totally different from the Joule Cycle Turbojet, as only the letter ‘O’ is used in spelling both words.

#17

No, it is for accuracy. That’s why they are a feature of match rifles. :shock:

Cement was invented by the Romans. Mud was invented by rain. :lol:

I never claimed that. :shock: Post the link if you can, but you cannot.

It has already been liscenced by Remmington and the US Government.
Maybe you need to call them and tell them that instead of here?

#18

Here are the images. I apologize that some of them are off-center, as I did not do the scanning.
I am including also the documents from the US Patent Office which describe “MY” inventions ( :o )
and the patent granted for them.

I invented it in 1986-87 and documented it in 1992.
The patent was granted to another party in 2000.
And no, I do not live at the address on the envelope anymore.

I know a few hecklers will blather some schookie twat spittle
and try to say that there is some reason why my invention
is not legitimate. All I can say to those who do is that you
are only making yourself look like a dweeblette because
you are jealous. :lol:

Anyway, I just wanted to share this because it is interesting
technology, and to make the point that a patent is critical to
inventors. It would have made me a very wealthy man!
The drawings are 1st generation, and had I applied for the
patent when I should have, I would have made further
adaptations to the technology to improve it.

There are several different designs here, some are single
contact and others are dual contact designs.

#19

On a related point I should like to point out that UK airgun maker Daystate makes a rifle with an microswitched trigger that actuates the fireing mechanism by means of a solenoid:http://www.daystate.co.uk/mk3.htm.
Having tried it the trigger can best be described as “dead”, there is no feel at all.

The purpose of a two-stage trigger is surely to provide a more predictable let-off than a single, this IS for ergonomic reasons because a more predictable let-off aids the shooters consistency, which is surely NOT the same as the weapons accuracy. Unless the trigger and firing pin actions are particularly rough I really can’t see how they can have any effects that would not be lost in the “noise” produced by the shooters own body.

#20

Funny thing is that electric ignition has been used in blasting since about 100 years, and there the technology went away from spark gaps as being unreliable to thin filaments coated in a flammable substance.
Also, electrical ignition was used in naval artillery since the late 19th century.
AFAIK, the vent tubes used in the gun of the British Chieftain tank were also electrically ignited (though I would have to ask one of our British Army forum members).

Jan