Most Important U.S. Fighter The humble P40

[kenbu]

In an on-going thread the P51 Mustang is romping ahead as the best U.S. fighter of WWII, I cant argue this as even long after the war Mustangs were in service all over South America and in the the 1960s the RAF got a Spifire XIX out of mothballs for training purposes.Why? because Indonesia was still fielding P51 `s and there was a chance that British jets would be facing off to them over Borneo and they needed a fast piston fighter to train up against,.

BUT, I still think the Curtiss P40 was the most IMPORTANT U.S. fighter of the War.Consider this ;when Americas back was up against the wall ,it was the P40 that gave them something to cheer about .In the hands of the AVG ,pilots like Pappy Boyington,Tex Hill and Charles Bond held the line in China against the all conquering Japanese.The Japanese flew wonderfully aerobatic kites ,like the Mitsubishi "Claude", which on paper could fly rings around the much heavier P40.But the P40 was above all tough and durable,using its superier diving speed against the slower (but more agile JAA fighters) and shrugging off damage that would have brought a Spitfire ,Fiat G.50 or even a P51 down.On 7th Dec 1941 over Pearl ,two P40B`s manged to shoot down 8 Japanese aircraft!,but despite this the image of the all-conquering Zero was born!

Curtiss`s Hawk75 /P36/40 series lacked glamour (with the odd exception), but like the tough Hurricane (overshadowed by the Spitfire), it got the job done and helped to buy time for more advanced types to come into service.

The P40 served everywhere, with everybody!!; Western Desert,Sicily,Burma ,China,Soviet Union( over Moscow ,Leningrad…),Panama,Puerto Rico, U.K.(flying sweeps over the channel with 2,26,231and 241 Sq. until displaced by the Mustang 1),Pacific,Aleutians ;the list goes on…

The Hawks were piloted by Brazilians,South Africans,Brits,Canadians,Americans,Soviets,Turks,Free French,Australians,Kiwis ,Czechs,Chinese…not forgetting the earlier radial engined Hawk75`s, flown by Finns (like Kalevi Tervo,15.5 kills!!!) against the Russians!

Sure it wasnt the best fighter, but it was tough ,it packed a decent punch and it was a brilliant fighter bomber too.Over 16,000 were built and as I said before; it helped slow down the onslaught and bought invaluable time.Its battle honours include,The Solomons,Guadalcanal, Sicily,New Gunea,China ,Leningrad,Italy …not bad for an obsolete also-ran!!!

Take care

Kenny

[Sickles]

Kenbu
Interesting discussion

[namvet]

these were lined up on the runway when pearl harbor was attacked. the japs touched em off like a string a fire crackers. but that was stupid to put them out there. they did their job in China.

[SS_Ouche-Vittes]

namvet: the reason why they were lined up tightly packed together was because the US forces in Hawaii were expecting sabotage from the civilians since 40-60% were of Japanese nationality. So the soldiers guarded the numerous craft by piling them in rows. Isn’t the P40 the plane that was modified with a new engine and a new wing and then turned into the P51 when the British were in need of p40s.

[kenbu]

If you want to see a great pic of one of the the Indonesian Mustangs (and many others!)I mentioned in my preamble go to this thread; http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6992
Mustangs! - WW2inColor Talk

Kenny

Damn, this is a great forum!!!

[kenbu]

@SS_Ouche-Vittes

namvet: the reason why they were lined up tightly packed together was because the US forces in Hawaii were expecting sabotage from the civilians since 40-60% were of Japanese nationality. So the soldiers guarded the numerous craft by piling them in rows. Isn’t the P40 the plane that was modified with a new engine and a new wing and then turned into the P51 when the British were in need of p40s.

No ;the ,British originally wanted Curtiss Hawks , but Curtiss couldnt oblige, their order books were full.North American Aviation came up with the Allison Mustang Mk1,blisteringly fast at low level .When the 20mm cannon armed M1A appeared the USAAF took some as the P-51,the even faster Mk2 (with 4 0.50 cal MGs);became the P-51A and then the Merlin versions appeared P-51B,C,D,H,K

Kenny

[namvet]

@SS_Ouche-Vittes

namvet: the reason why they were lined up tightly packed together was because the US forces in Hawaii were expecting sabotage from the civilians since 40-60% were of Japanese nationality. So the soldiers guarded the numerous craft by piling them in rows. Isn’t the P40 the plane that was modified with a new engine and a new wing and then turned into the P51 when the British were in need of p40s.

yeah I know. nice targets for the japs. no the 51 was built for the brits. nothing to do with the P-40. the 51 had an allison engine. under powered. the brits dropped the rolls royce merlin into the 51.

[kenbu]

@namvet

yeah I know. nice targets for the japs. no the 51 was built for the brits. nothing to do with the P-40. the 51 had an allison engine. under powered. the brits dropped the rolls royce merlin into the 51.

I disagree with the “underpowered” comment the early P51A (Mustang Mk 2) could produce 1,125 hp at 18,000 feet from its Allison (same as the A-36A) and was good for 409 mph at 11,000 ft making it the fastest fighter of its time at low to medium level.Above 20,000 ft the Allison ran out of grunt!!

Kenny

[namvet]

@kenbu

I disagree with the “underpowered” comment the early P51A (Mustang Mk 2) could produce 1,125 hp at 18,000 feet from its Allison (same as the A-36A) and was good for 409 mph at 11,000 ft making it the fastest fighter of its time at low to medium level.Above 20,000 ft the Allison ran out of grunt!!

Kenny

nope. watch this

[video](http://www.history.com/media.do?action=clip&id=dogfights_P51Mustang_broadband)

[kenbu]

@namvet

nope. watch this

[video](http://www.history.com/media.do?action=clip&id=dogfights_P51Mustang_broadband)

This simply backs up what I said about the Allisons lack of power above medium level,re-dressed by the (2 stage Merlin also carried by the Spitfire Mkvii,viii and the most produced version the Mkix).But did you notice the mistake ;the narrator said that the Mustang carried 6 machine guns ,yet "Old Crow" shown in the clip was a four gun P51 B/C (the B/C were identical,the B was built at Inglewood,Cal. and the C at Dallas,Tx)The Mustang Mk1A carried 4 20mm cannon and was the first varient that the USAAF took delivery of as the P51 ,the next version with 4 50 cals was the Mustang Mk2 or P51A ,then the next version(s) was the Packard Merlin B/Cs…the rest as they say"is history"!!

The History Channel is a fine thing but they do make errors and are prone to making generalisations,I tend to use specialist books published by the likes of Squadron Signal, Ventura and Osprey.

Allison Mustangs and their attack bomber cousin the A-36A Apache created mayhem and also did fine Tac-Recce work all over the Med,Burma and Europe, right up to the end of the war

Take care

Kenny.

P.S. “Old Crow” definately was a 4 gun P51B ;in fact a P51B-15NA ,serial no 43-24824,flown by Clarence “Bud” Anderson, he later flew a 6 gun P51D-10NA also called “Old Crow”,this is probably what confused the makers of this episode of Dogfights.

[tankgeezer]

My vote is for Joe Lewis, (well, no one said what type of American fighter, )

[kenbu]

@tankgeezer

my vote is for joe lewis, (well, no one said what type of american fighter, )

can`t argue with this!!