Hello. I’m new to this site and I’m not sure if this is the appropriate forum for my story, but here goes anyways. I am 34 years old and have been a big WW2 history buff since high school. I am interested in all aspects of the war and find it very facinating. I am most interested in the Nazi history of WW2, but please believe me when I say that I have no sympathy nor do I support Nazism in any way. Anyways, My grandpa was in the U.S. Navy during the war and was stationed in Hawaii, although it was after December 7th, 1941. As far as I know, he did not see any action. A few years before he died, we got to talking about the war and he told me something that I had not known before. His brother (my great uncle) was a P-47 Thunderbolt pilot with the 365th fighter squadron. Anyways, my great uncle was on a mission over France in July of 1944 when he was jumped by about 50 ME-109’s and FW-190’s. He did not return to his base that day. I don’t know if it was unusual to be jumped by that many enemy fighters in mid-1944, but my grandpa gave me a copy of the report that was filed when my great uncle Jay did not return from his mission, and the report clearly states 50 enemy fighters. Anyways, a French farmer saw my great uncles plane falling toward the ground and quickly ran out to the aircraft to see if my great uncle was still alive before the Germans got to him. He was dead before he hit the ground. My grandpa and this French farmer were in contact with each other until shortly before my grandpa died in 2005. The guy in France sent my grandpa photos and pieces on the aircraft through the years. The local community where my great uncle was shot down even made a hand painted dinner plate with his airplane, etc painted in great detail. I guess they have alot of respect for my great uncle. My great uncle is buried at Normandy. I forget what squadron shot down my great uncle, but my grandfather told me that he thinks he was able to figure out the name of the German pilot who shot my great uncle down. There is a book out titled “The 365th Fighter Squadron in World War II” by Kent Miller. In the book, my great uncle is mentioned as well as the squadron that shot him down. Anyways, I thought I would share this story about my great uncle, a man I never knew, but am extremely proud of and proud to share his name. I did some research on the internet and this is what I came up with. His ID was 0-674346. He was a First Lieutenant with the U.S. Army Air Forces, 365th Fighter Squadron, 358th Fighter Group. He died on July 14th, 1944 and is buried at the Normandy American cemetery in Colleville-sur-Mer, France. His grave location is Plot B, Row 13, Grave 13. Some of his awards were the Air Medal with 9 Oak Leak Clusters and the Purple Heart. He flew the P-47 Thunderbolt in 25 missions with 50 sorties.
Interesting story. So what squadron attacked your great-uncle?
It is most unusual that he would get jumped by so many planes, and why was he alone, anyway?
PS: Try to add spaces between the paragraphs, would reduce the wall of text and make it easier to read…
Fifty Luftwaffe planes does seem to be a bit extraordinary…
Can you scan the official report?
A very interesting stories and as nick said, 50 planes sounds a little to extreme, please do scan it, it would be nice to see.
This -for German late-war measures- huge number of aircrafts would have been more common above German soil (so called “Reichsverteidigung”, imperial defense), by mid 1944 in France quite unusual though. The high number along with the fact that different types of planes were involved (you mentioned Me-109 and FW-190) leads to the assumption that it had been a major action of different units.
You should indeed post the official report.
Joel 109
50 fighters would be unlikely to attack a single enemy fighter. There isn’t enough room in the sky. Three or four of them would normally be more than enough to detach and deal with a single fighter.
It seems more likely that your great uncle was involved in an action with other Allied planes if 50 German fighters were attacking.
The thing that really bothers me, though, is that he seems to have been alone. That doesn’t really make any sense, does it?
In July 1944, or at any time in the war, it’s quite possible that a single Allied (or Axis) plane could become detached from its unit and become prey to enemy fighters.
It wasn’t unusual for a plane or several, depending upon the size of the original unit entering battle, to become detached and have to make its own way home.
There were also flights by Allied fighters and fighter / bombers over France in 1944, before and after D Day, seeking ‘targets of opportunity’ which could easily lead to a single Allied plane being a target for German planes.
That sounds like a good explanation. But wasn’t the Thunderbolt faster than the ME109 and FW190?
ME190: 640km/h
FW109: 656km/h
P-47: 697km/h
If I saw 50 enemies I would definitely try to fly away.
That is, if I could and they weren’t in my path…
P47 faster in the dive, due to great weight, yes. Able to dogfight as easily, no. Turning radius was about 20% wider, and most P47s were speed limited by the drag of the bomb and droptank shackles, which would have brought them within the speed range of the FW190s and Me.109s in any case. Full throttle climb was very comparable to the German fighters.
As to 50 German fighters… one thought I had was that perhaps the report identified some of the fighters as belonging to one of the “50” series JagdGeschwaders, such as Jg54, Jg52, Jg53. Were that the case, the number “50” might then be read as the amount of German aircraft present, instead of the possible unit ID’s.
Speculation, I know, but then again, in the air war many odd things did happen, just as on the ground and at sea.
Regards, Uyraell.
JG26 and he was not alone. There were three others.
I have made scans of the MACR and I have tons of photos, newspaper clippings, etc to back up my story, but whenever I try to post a picture on this forum, I get a message telling me that the picture is too big. I don’t have any idea how to make the scans, pictures, etc any smaller. Can anyone help?
It was one of these 5 pilots who shot down my great uncle on 14 July 1944.
Date Pilot Unit Enemy A/C claimed Location Time Reference
14.07.44 Ltn. Heinz Kemethmüller 4./JG 26 P-47 Ł AC: 1.000-1.200 m. [St. André-de-l’Eure] 14.36 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.166
14.07.44 Maj. Karl Borris Stab I./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC-1: 1.400 m. [Évreux] 14.36 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.70
14.07.44 Oblt. Hans Hartigs 4./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC: 1.000 m. [St. André-de-l’Eure] 14.37 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.167
14.07.44 Ltn. Joachim Günther 3./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC: 1.000 m. [St. André-de-l’Eure] 14.38 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.153
14.07.44 Ltn. Joachim Günther 3./JG 26 P-47 Ł 04 Ost N/AC at 400 m. [St. André-de-l’Eure] 14.40 Film C. 2027/II VNE: ASM
14.07.44 Uffz. Haun 9./JG 26 P-47 Ł AB-69 at 1.100 m. [Verneuil] 14.57 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. -
Last week I received 9 P-47 parts from France that were excavated from my great uncles crash site in 1999. I have pics of the parts, but again, they are too big to post. If anyone can tell me how to shink my pics so I can actually post them on this forum, I would appreciate it very much.
Here is a transcript of a newspaper article that was released in my great uncles hometown in 2000. I would post a picture of the actual newspaper clipping, but again, it is too big.
Anacortes native Jay V. "Herky" Thomson, a pilot who was killed in a dogfight over France during World War II, was honored at a ceremony Sept. 9 at the village of Saint-Denis du Behelan, France, near the site where his plane crashed.
"I sure wish I could've gone,” said Thomson’s brother, Bert, who is recovering from a hospitalization.
"All of my family but me is over there."
A plaque honoring Thomson, who was a first lieutenant, is placed at the village's soldier’s monument. Dignitaries from Paris, including U.S. Air Force representatives, were scheduled to attend, his brother said.
The identification of Thomson's crash site and the ceremony were the work of the Forced Landing Association (or Association Pour L'Histoire et le Souvenir des Pilotes et Hommes D'Equipages Allies). Members of this group, many of whom were born after the war, research allied plane crash sites, then excavate and document them.
Thomson, who still lives in Anacortes, said his older brothers Jay and Chester enlisted in the Army after Pearl Harbor.
"That's the first thing they did," he said. "They both wanted to be pilots. One made it and one didn't."
Bert himself graduated from Anacortes High School in 1942, then enlisted in the Navy on Nov.11 of that year. He spent much of the war stationed in Honolulu.
Jay was attached to the 365th Fighter Squadron of the 358th Fighter Group, in the Army Air Force, where he flew a P-47 Thunderbolt fighter/bomber, Thomson said. His outfit was stationed at High Halden Air Force Base near Kent, England.
On July 14th, 1944, several squads went out to bomb a railroad tunnel near Neubourg. A contemporary report said the four planes in 1LT Thomson's squad were swarmed by more than 50 German planes over Brezolles, west of Dreux. Thomson's plane was hit by an ME109 and an FW190, according to the report. He was listed as missing.
Thomson said he always checked VFW magazines for information about his brother’s outfit. One recent edition provided him with a contact, who gave him the addresses of men who were likely to have known Jay.
"I wrote to nine of them," he said. "I heard back from all but one, and he had died."
One of the pilots referred him to a friend in England, who lived near the air force base. This friend, in turn, put him in touch with Jean-Luc Gruson of the Forced Landing Association, who was researching several planes that had been shot down on the same day. Gruson pinpointed which was which through excavated artifacts, such as a temperature gauge. Gruson wrote to Thomson and coordinated the ceremony so the family could attend.
Although he was unable to join his family in France, he and his son Scott went to Causland Memorial Park Saturday to honor Jay with a prayer.
"It was pretty touching to think they were over in France doing the same thing," he said.Use a third party site, such as photobucket.com to upload the image. Then just copy the image code and you should be set.
Alternatively, you can just try to downscale the images using a program such as Microsoft Digital Image Standard or Photoshop or whatever.
The Missing Air Crew Report is in PDF format. I tried to copy them to photobucket, but it won’t accept PDF. How can I shrink PDF?
Click on this link for the pics.
http://warrelics.eu/forum/german-third-reich-history-research/4937-new-here-i-have-story-you.html
Many of you said that my original story of my great uncle and three others in his squadron being jumped by more than 50 German fighters on 14 July 1944 was unlikely, but by clicking on the above link, you will see that my story is true.
I can’t see why you’re having trouble uploading your images to this forum. I’ve downloaded one of your images from the War Relics forum and uploaded it to Imageshack and it uploads fine to this forum.
I am most impressed by the ‘truth’ demonstrated by your post in the link at #21 as ‘evidence’ about your great uncle.
I have a sort of neat update to my original story. Last weekend I received an e-mail from a gentleman by the name of Lewis T. Easterling from North Carolina. He told me that he was in the same squadron as my great uncle in 1944. He told me that he never knew my great uncle, but that the squadron had many losses that year. My great uncle was shot down and killed in July, 1944 and Lewis T. Easterling was shot down in December of the same year, but survived.
He flew his 68th sortie on December 17 near Mannheim, Germany, attacking railway marshaling yards containing supplies destined for the “Bulge” at Bastogne. While strafing, an explosion engulfed his plane inflicting extensive damage. He headed his flaming plane toward home receiving heavy ground fire. When the propeller stopped turning he attempted to bailout, but became pinned to the side of the fuselage. Breaking free, he collided with the tail finally managing to open his chute at approx. 800 ft.
He continued to receive automatic rifle and 20 mm fire until landing. Multiple injuries were sustained, including two broken legs and a gun shot wound. He was in immediate danger from the civilians but was rescued by S.S. Troops who transported him to a small village where a demonstration and mock execution took place.
Most of his time as a POW was spent in a room with 15 or 20 other wounded prisoners, none of whom spoke English. He returned to the U.S. in June, 1945 and received medical treatment until his discharge from Walter Reed Hospital in November 1947. He was awarded the Purple Heart, six Air Medals, the E.T.O. ribbon with three Battle Stars.
My bold
I suppose Lewis is so old now that he can’t remember what actually happened to him and instead just lifted his own history from the P47 Pilots’ Association website and emailed it to you.
Easterling flew his 68th sortie on December 17 near Mannheim, Germany, attacking railway marshaling yards containing supplies destined for the “Bulge” at Bastogne. While strafing, an explosion engulfed his plane inflicting extensive damage. He headed his flaming plane toward home receiving heavy ground fire. When the propeller stopped turning he attempted to bailout, but became pinned to the side of the fuselage. Breaking free, he collided with the tail finally managing to open his chute at approx. 800 ft.
He continued to receive automatic rifle and 20 mm fire until landing. Multiple injuries were sustained, including two broken legs and a gun shot wound. He was in immediate danger from the civilians but was rescued by S.S. Troops who transported him to a small village where a demonstration and mock execution took place.
Most of his time as P-O-W. was spent in a room with 15 or 20 other wounded prisoners, none of whom spoke English. He returned to the U.S. in June, 1945 and received medical treatment until his discharge from Walter Reed Hospital in November 1947. He was awarded the Purple Heart, six Air Medals, the E.T.O. ribbon with three Battle Stars.
http://www.p47pilots.com/P47-Pilots.cfm?c=incP47BiographyHome.cfm&vm=BIO&pilotid=139&p=Lewis%20T.%20Easterling
Is any more of your material lifted from the internet?
We’ll see.