No Rape of Nanking

Apparently it’s laughable to think that the Rape of Nanking ever occurred.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aefFXZhOWBQ&feature=related

Still, it’s entirely possible that the press did use photos taken earlier. The press never lets facts and historical accuracy get in the way of pulling a good picture from the archives.

The weight of evidence and careful analysis clearly show that the Rape of Nanking never occurred: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=fake+of+nanking&search_type= (‘improved versions’ are easier to understand)

If they’d tried a bit harder, they could have proved that Nanking was a figment of Chinese imagination so Japan couldn’t have done anything there.

And here is what these terrible historical lies against Japan are really about in the modern world, including China trying to get Japan and America to fight another war so China can conquer Asia, while Japan never, ever tried to conquer the world, which presumably means that it never tried to conquer Asia either, as that isn’t mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkEsP3yyvfA

The claim that a book based on a couple of pre-war articles in American newspapers written by Chinese Nationalist propagandists was the only evidence at the Tokyo Trials is a revelation. I am, of course, assuming that the subtitles are accurate and not put there by the Chinese Nationalists who the speaker accuses of an awful conspiracy against the Japanese during their gentle 1930s travels in China in rather large and well organised numbers, or perhaps the subtitles were put in by the Chinese Communists who he also regards as being part of the conspiracy against Japan (which would be the only thing the Nationalists and Communists ever cooperated on).

I think that the speaker is the same one challening the photos in the video in my last link.

What a nutbag!

The Rape of Nanking did in fact happen,Old Japanese soldiers still boast about it.Hitler was even horified by it and that’s why we hung the bastards.

That’s not in dispute.

But what really happened and, more importantly, how reliable is the ‘evidence’ commonly put forward for it?

This seems to be a reasonable paper by a professional historian which illustrates the range of impossible claims about the numbers killed and, I think rather weakly in some cases, casts doubt on some of the photos commonly used as ‘evidence’. http://www.wellesley.edu/Polisci/wj/China/Nanjing/nanjing2.html That goes back to my earlier comment about the press using representative rather than accurate photos which distort the historical record.

Then again, Hata is a historian not free of controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikuhiko_Hata , but without the usual journalistic looseness in using photos people like him wouldn’t be able to nitpick at the foundations to topple the building most people can see is there.

‘We’ hanged so few of the bastards that it wasn’t worth the national expenditure on the trial or the rope. Only two A class war criminals were hanged on the Nanking charge, and one of them was the Foreign Minister who had no control over what the frequently renegade Kwantung Army was doing. As with some other Japanese tried for alleged war crimes, it’s debatable whether he was a war criminal or a victim of victor’s justice. Meanwhile the bastards who who did all the damage generally escaped any form of justice. It’s like hanging Himmler and letting the bastards who ran the Nazi death camps go free.

In the end the Tribunal connected only two defendants to the Rape of Nanking.

Matsui was convicted of count 55, which charged him with being one of the senior officers who “deliberately and recklessly disregarded their legal duty [by virtue of their respective offices] to take adequate steps to secure the observance [of the Laws and Customs of War] and prevent breaches thereof, and thereby violated the laws of war.”

Hirota Koki, who had been the Foreign Minister when Japan conquered Nanjing, was convicted of participating in “the formulation or execution of a common plan or conspiracy” (count 1), waging “a war of aggression and a war in violation of international laws, treaties, agreements and assurances against the Republic of China” (count 27) and count 55.153

On November 12, 1948, on the basis of a simple majority of the eleven judges, Matsui and Hirota, with five other convicted Class-A war criminals, were sentenced to death by hanging. Eighteen others received lesser sentences. The death sentence imposed on Hirota, who was apparently sent to the gallows on the basis of a bare six votes, shocked the general public and prompted a petition on his behalf, which soon gathered over 300,000 signatures, but to no avail.
http://www.geocities.com/nankingatrocities/Tribunals/imtfe_01.htm

Whatever justice there might have been in the IMTFE exercise, it was rendered a joke for political reasons as most of the defendants served less time than a drunk driver would for killing a pedestrian in Australia.

Two (Yosuke Matsuoka and Osami Nagano) of the twenty-eight defendants died of natural causes during the trial. One defendant (Shumei Okawa) had a mental breakdown on the first day of trial, was sent to a psychiatric ward and was released in 1948 a free man. The remaining twenty-five (25) were all found guilty, many of multiple counts. Seven (7) were sentenced to death by hanging, sixteen (16) to life imprisonment, and two (2) to lesser terms. All seven sentenced to death were found to be guilty of inciting or otherwise implicated in mass-scale atrocities, among other counts. Three of the sixteen sentenced to life imprisonment died between 1949 and 1950 in prison. The remaining thirteen (13) were paroled between 1954 and 1956, less than eight years in prison for their crimes against millions of people.

Two former ambassadors were sentenced to seven and twenty years in prison. One died two years later in prison. The other one, Shigemitsu, was paroled in 1950, and was appointed foreign minister
http://www.cnd.org/njmassacre/nj.html

If the Japanese actions in Nanking in 1937 are so bad, long before WWII broke out, why didn’t ‘we’ prosecute the Italians for their actions in Abyssinia in 1935-36 for using mustard gas contrary to Italy’s subscription to the 1925 Geneva Protocol not to use it?

It’s all very selective as far as victor’s justice goes.

The Rape of Nanking was not recorded by the Chinese.The numbers of dead were reported by foreign priests,teachers and and reporters in the city at the time.
The numbers were greatly under estimated as there was a lot of the City they wern’t aloud to enter.Funny you should bring this subject up it was on TV about two weeks ago.Even the children were slaughtered.

The Rape of Nanjing was recorded, very ironically, by a local German businessman named Rabe…

…From UC@Berkley, 7th para down:

One of the most inspiring if unusual aspects of the massacre was the presence of John Rabe, an Oscar Schindler-like Nazi businessman who along with a number of other unsung foreign educators and missionaries not only stayed in the beleaguered city through the worst of the bloodshed, but helped set up an “International Safety Zone” to minister to wounded, homeless and starving Chinese and to protect those being preyed upon by Japanese soldiers.

Rabe, a bald, bespectacled and mild-mannered German, worked for the Siemens China Company and kept a diary that Chang, the author of a book about the Chinese missile industry, “Thread of the Silkworm,” unearthed while researching "The Rape of Nanking. " Rabe wrote: “I want to make sure with my own eyes about this cruelty, so I can someday tell others about it as a witness.” The day Japanese troops entered the city, he described the scene as one he would have “scarcely believed if I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes.”

With his swastika armband as his only protection, Rabe began making regular patrols of the city in an attempt to protect Chinese from Japanese predations. But perhaps his most important effort was his work in setting up the safety zone, a special area into which a quarter of a million desperate Chinese ultimately fled and were watched over by a small handful of heroic Westerners. As one of Rabe’s Nanjing colleagues, the Harvard-trained surgeon Robert O. Wilson, wrote of Rabe, “What a splendid man he is and what tremendous heart he has.” However, Wilson hastily added, “It is hard to reconcile his personality with his adulation for Der Fuhrer.” Nonetheless, for his heroic efforts, Rabe earned the name “the living Buddha of Nanking.”

I seen Max Hastings on C-SPAN the other week promoting his new book Retribution. Part of the show allowed questions to be asked and Max Hastings to the best of his knowledge would answer about WWII. One person actually brought up the Rape of Nanking and he said while he was no familiar with it first-hand, he had long spoken with a Japanese Scholar (Possibly Hata) who had greatly studied ‘The Rape of Nanking’ and he himself said he was convinced with his finding that the figure dead is around 50,000.

He had also stated that the Chinese Historians do not follow the Western way on studying History and do not necessarily care about accuracy and that the tendency to bloat the numbers of War dead is to show how angry they are with Japan during that particular time.

Thats alright then, a bloke who doesn’t know, quotes a Japanese scholar who says it’s ONLY 50,000 civilians slaughtered.

Nice balanced view.

No, a world renowned author on WWII who’s life has been spent on studying history, talking in great lengths with another like minded individual who spends his life doing the same thing. One historian offers what he found, shows the other man all his resources and facts and conclusions. This is no different than scientists sharing theories with each other. For Max Hastings to be convinced enough to put out in Public his opinion on the matter, risking his name, is good enough for me to support this matter as well.

Let me say again he did not MERELY quote a Japanese scholar, he discussed the matter with him personally and suggested that man’s findings were correct.

Yes, but, haven’t those same Chinese been accused of themselves downplaying what took place and Nanjing?

Max Hastings may be a world renowned author to you but some of his stuff is dodgy at best. You also avoid my point that it seems alright if it was only 50,000 civilians killed in cold blood.

I have often wondered how accurate figures can be possible at all, given the general lack of information in a region filled with turmoil in the period. However well intentioned historians are, it may not be possible to give an even reasonably accurate estimate.

I must agree with the above poster. 50,000 people sounds like a lot of humans to me, enough to fill the Colosseum in Rome at any rate. The idea of putting that many persons to death sort of boggles the mind. But, as Josef Stalin said,

“One death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.”