% of Verfiable Victories -14 May 07 -Complete -Pt I

Site Issues 2007 Archive Room
#1

Historically Verified Victories of Various Aces
14 May 07 ADDITION - 5 WWII Aces
Helmut Lent (66 VV) Otto Schulz (16 VV) Gerhard Homuth (11 VV) Dieter Meister (6 VV) Kurt Necesany (5VV)
& 10 Korean War USAF Aces / 25 Korean War Russian Aces / 15 North Vietnamese Aces

Current Ace Tally with Verified Victories (VV) - 126 Aces:
56 WWI Central Power Aces / 5 WWI Allied Aces / 15 WWII Aces / Korean War Aces (25 USSR/10 USAF) / 15 North Vietnamese Aces

CAVEAT: I’ve started what I think is an interesting and potentially important thread: While I recognize this endeavor will be imperfect (in some cases highly), it may provide a SENSE of the actual success of various aces. Hopefully, it will expand and eventually (perhaps WELL into the future) provide us with a fairly comprehensive and reliable database. I am relying on the contributions of others and cannot vouch for the authenticity of submissions -I am relying on the web community to keep tabs and bring debatable data to light. Perhaps in cases of great controversy, a range could be established (i.e., pilot X claimed 100 aircraft and the documents/records STRONGLY SUGGEST he shot down 40 with another 30 Possible and of these ‘Official’ Victories 20 were really only Damaged etc. and 10 were Phantom (No Historical Basis) Claims).

NOTE: Just because we can verify only a portion of a pilot’s claims, it does not necessarily mean that they did not actually shoot down more aircraft (though in a few throuroghly researched cases, this seems highly probable) -it means only that so many have been confirmed by the historical record to date.

54 WWI Central Power Aces (Claims of Some Aces are Easier to evaluate due to more complete British vs. French Loss Records)

  1. 74 of 80 Claims ( 92.5%) Manfred von Richthofen -Source Norman Franks

  2. 46 of 48 Claims ( 95.8%) Werner Voss -Source Norman Franks

  3. 33 of 33 Claims (100.0%) Kurt Wolff -Source Norman Franks

  4. 33 of 40 Claims ( 82.5%) Lothar von Richthofen -Source Norman Franks

  5. 32 of 45 Claims ( 71.1%) Fritz Rumey -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  6. 30 of 30 Claims (100.0%) Karl Allmenröder -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  7. 30 of 37 Claims ( 81.1%) Lt. Max Ritter von Müller (1Verified Victory was an Unconfimred Claim) -Source Norman Franks

  8. 30 of 62 Claims ( 48.4%) Ernst Udet -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  9. 28 of 31 Claims ( 90.3%) Paul Billik -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  10. 27 of 54 Claims ( 50.0%) Erich Lowenhardt -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  11. 25 of 44 Claims ( 56.8%) Rudolf Berthold -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  12. 25 of 48 Claims ( 52.0%) Josef Jacobs -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  13. 26 of 28 Claims ( 92.9%) Friedrich von Roth -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  14. 26 of 40 Claims ( 65.0%) Franz Büchner (Possibly 34/40 Claims 85%) REQUIRES FURTHER EVALUATION –SEE BELOW

  15. 25 of 30 Claims ( 83.3%) Karl-Emil Schäfer -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  16. 24 of 44 Claims ( 54.5%) Bruno Loerzer -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  17. 23 of 40 Claims ( 57.5%) Oswald Bölcke (Verifiable Victories (VV) OBSCURED by insufficiency of French loss records!)

  18. 22 of 35 Claims ( 62.9%) Goodwin Brumowski positive or possible ID –Top Austrian WWI Ace

  19. 22 of 43 Claims ( 51.2%) Paul Baumer -Source Barrett @ http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  20. 21 of 24 Claims ( 87.5%) Hptm. Adolf Ritter von Tutschek (also Credited 3 Balloons) -Source Norman Franks

  21. 20 of 24 Claims ( 83.3%) Oblt. Erwin Böhme-Source Norman Franks

  22. 15 of 32 Claims ( 46.9%) Julius Arigi -(15+ Verified) Austrian - O’Connor’s Air Aces of the Austro-Hungarian EWmpire 1914-1918

  23. 14 of 15 Claims ( 93.3%) Max Immelmann (2-3 additional Verifed Victories not claimed as Kills by Immelmann) -Norman Franks

  24. 13 of 25 Claims ( 52.0%) Lt. Walter von Bülow-Bothkamp (also Credited 3 Balloons) -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  25. 12 of 13 Claims ( 83.3%) Oblt. zur See Friedrich Christiansen -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  26. 11 of 12 Claims ( 91.7%) Sebastien Festner -Paul Forster http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27382

  27. 11 of 20 Claims ( 55.0%) Lt. Ernst Hess (2 of 3 Unconfirmed Claims were Verified & Included in Tally) -Source ‘Aerodrome’

  28. 11 of 44 Claims ( 25.0%) Hptm. Rudolf Berthold -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  29. 9 of 12 Claims ( 75.0%) Lt. Hans von Keudell -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  30. 9 of 22 Claims (  40.9%) Minimum: Hermann Göring: -Source Norman Franks 
    15 of 22 Claims (  68.2%) Possible: Hermann Göring: Possibly 14 of 22 Claims (63.6%)

  31. 8 of 10 Claims ( 80.0%) Lt. Max Ritter von Mulzer -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  32. 8 of 14 Claims ( 57.1%) Oblt. Hans-Georg von der Marwitz (also Credited 1 Balloon) -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  33. 8 of 14 Claims ( 57.1%) Lt. Georg Schlenker -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section Aces Section

  34. 8 of 19 Claims ( 42.1%) Lt. Kurt Wintgens -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  35. 8 of 28 Claims ( 28.6%) Benno Fiala Ritter von Fernbrugg –Austrian -Source

  36. 7 of 9 Claims ( 77.7%) Lt. Gustav Leffers -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  37. 6 of 7 Claims ( 85.7%) Lt. Gisbert-Wilhelm Groos -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  38. 6 of 8 Claims ( 75.0%) Lt. Karl Gallwitz (also Credited 2 Balloons) -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  39. 6 of 8 Claims ( 75.0%) Lt. Ludwig ‘Lutz’ Beckmann -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  40. 5 of 5 Claims (100.0%) Lt. Joachim von Bertrab -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  41. 5 of 7 Claims ( 71.4%) Lt. zur See Paul Achilles (also Credited 1 Balloon) -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  42. 5 of 7 Claims ( 71.4%) Hptm. Otto Hartmann -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  43. 5 of 8 Claims ( 62.5%) Lt. Kurt Monnington -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  44. 5 of 8 Claims ( 62.5%) Lt. Viktor Schobinger -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  45. 5 of 9 Claims ( 55.5%) Vizefeldwebel Karl Pech -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  46. 5 of 36 Claims ( 13.8%) Rittmeister Karl Bolle -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  47. 4 of 4 Claims (100.0%) Lt. Alfred Ulmer (also Credited 1 Balloon) -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  48. 4 of 5 Claims ( 80.0%) Oblt. Heinrich Lorenz -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  49. 4 of 5 Claims ( 80.0%) Hptm. Martin Zander -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  50. 4 of 6 Claims ( 66.7%) Lt. Otto Walter Höhne -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  51. 4 of 7 Claims ( 57.1%) Lt. Gerhard Bassenge -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  52. 4 of 8 Claims ( 50.0%) Vizeflugmeister Hans Goerth -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  53. 4 of 8 Claims ( 50.0%) Offizierstellvertreter Willi Kampe -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

  54. 4 of 8 Claims ( 50.0%) Oblt. Hans Schilling -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

5 WWI ALLIED ACE RECORDS

  1. 33 of 34 Claims ( 97.1%) Francesco Baracca - KIA 19 Jun 1918 -www.theaerodrome.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27428

  2. 31 of 46.5 Claims ( 66.7%) James McCudden (46.5 Credited Kills / 57 Official Victories) (Possibly 36 of 46.5 Claims 77.4%)

  3. Edward ‘Mick’ Mannock (38.28 Credited Kills / 61 Official Victories)
    15 of 38 Claims ( 39.2%) -as per DEM 2 Oct 06

  4. Eddie Rickenbacker (?? Claimed Kills / 26 Official Victories)
    11 of 26 Claims ( 42.3%) -including 2 “grounders” -2 Crash Landed?

  5. Lanoe Hawker (3 Credited Kills / 7 Official Victories)
    1 of 3 Claims ( 33.3%) -as per DEM 2 Oct 06

2 WWI CENTRAL POWER ACES RECORDS REQUIRING FURTHER EVALUATION

Franz Büchner
11 of 40 Claims ( 27.5%) -as per Barrettt (source Above The Lines?)
26 of 40 Claims ( 65.0%) -strict accounting as per Rammjaeger (this seems to utilize more up to date info than ATL)
34 of 40 Claims ( 85.0%) -a more liberal accouting by Rammjaeger

Offizierstellvertreter Edmund Nathanael (German-Jewish Ace)
17 of 17 Claims (100.0%) -source rammjaeger -did not cross check w ATL
8 of 13 Claims ( 61.5%) -Source Aerodrome’ Site Aces Section

2 WWI ALLIED ACE RECORDS REQUIRING FURTHER EVALUATION

Billy Bishop (55 Credited Kills / 72 Official Victories)
20 of 55 Claims ( 36.4%) -more recent evaluation of German Records than at billybishop.net/bishopP.html as per Al Lowe 6 Oct 98
2 of 55 Claims ( 03.6%) -It seems highly unlikely to me that such exaggeration would be tolerated by his squadron

Raymond Collishaw (29.2 Credited Kills / 60 Official Victories)
0 of 29 Claims ( 00.0%) - as per DEM 2 Oct 06 -Highly unlikely that such exaggeration would be tolerated by his squadron.

CAVEAT: It is difficult to check WWI Allied Claims against the incomplete Central Power Loss Records! Moreover, the actual ‘Official’ credits are being revised to include ‘Kill’ claims only (i.e., including not Out Of Control (OOC) etc.) If the situation is as bad as has been suggested, then perhaps we should limit our evaluation to Central Powers and Italian (?) aces?

#2

10 WWII Aces

  1. 81 of 151 Claims ( 53.6%) Minimum: Hans-Joachim Marseille (158) 151 Afrika + 7 Battle of Britain -Source Wikipedia
    127 of 151 Claims ( 84.1%) Possible: Hans-Joachim Marseille (158) 151 Afrika + 7 Battle of Britain -Source Wikipedia

  2. ~80 of 345 Claims (~23.2%) Erich Hartmann (352) -Ace of Aces? -based on ‘research’ of Dimitri Khazanov

  3. 74 of 121 Claims ( 61.2%) Heinz-Wolfgang Schnaufer -Top NJG Ace (much higher verification % has been indicated)

  4. 66 of 111 Claims ( 59.5%) Helmut Lent -2nd NJG Ace (49 Consecutive VV -Therefore higher verification % indicated)

  5. 25 of 40 Claims ( 62.5%) Richard Bong USAAF PTO Ace of Aces -unknown Web post.

  6. 21 of 28 Claims ( 75.0%) Francis ‘Gabby’ Gabreski USAAF ETO Ace of Aces -Source a 56th FG History

  7. 16 of 51 Claims ( 31.4%) Minimum: Otto Schulz -Pilot Identified (Including 7 Aces -3KIA!!) -Source Kacha’s Web Site
    26 of 51 Claims ( 51.0%) Possible: Otto Schulz -Pilot or Unit Identified -http://www.luftwaffe.cz/schulz.html

  8. 15 of 64 Claims ( 23.4%) Saburo Sakai -top scoring surviving IJNAF ace -Henry Sakaida post?

  9. 13 of 39 Claims ( 33.3%) Minimum: Rudolf Sinner -Pilot Identified -Source Kacha’s Web Site
    22 of 39 Claims ( 56.4%) Possible: Rudolf Sinner -Pilot or Unit Identified -Source Kacha’s Web Site

  10. 11 of 63 Claims ( 17.5%) Minimum: Gerhard Homuth -Pilot Identified -Source Kacha’s Web Site
    42 of 63 Claims ( 66.7%) Possible: Gerhard Homuth -Pilot or Unit Identified - http://www.luftwaffe.cz/homuth.html

  11. ~9.5 of 26 Claims ( 36.5%) Gregory ‘Pappy’ Boyington - PROPORTIONAL METHOD JoeB

  12. 9 of   31 Claims (  29.0%)	Heinz Knocke (-research continuing @ heinzknokewebsite.com)

  13. 6+ of  7 Claims ( +85.8%)	Lt. Hans -Leopold Henkemeier -Source Andrey Dikov

  14. 5   of  6 Claims (   83.3%) 	Minimum: Kurt Necesany -Pilot Identified -2 Unconfirmed/Shared Claims Verified
      6 of 6 Claims       (100.0%) Possible: Kurt Necesany -Pilot or Unit Identified

  15. 6 of 8 Claims ( 75.0%) Minimum: Dieter Meister -Pilot Identified
    8 of 8 Claims (100.0%) Possible: Dieter Meister -Pilot or Unit Identified
    7.08/11 Individual/Shared Claims ( 64.4%) Minimum: Dieter Meister -Pilot Identified
    10.08/11 Individual/Shared Claims ( 91.6%) Possible: Dieter Meister -Pilot or Unit Identified

Korean War USAF Aces –Source http://www.acepilots.com/korea_aces.html

  1. 13.5 of 15.5 Claims ( 87.1%) Capt. Manuel J. ‘Pete’ Fernandez
  2. 13 of 15 Claims ( 86.7%) Maj. James Jabara & 1.5 WWII Credits
  3. 13 of 16 Claims ( 81.3%) Capt. Joseph M. McConnell
  4. 11 of 13 Claims ( 84.6%) Col Royal N. Baker& 3.5 WWII Credits
  5. 10 of 14 Claims ( 71.4%) Maj. George A. Davis & 7.0 WWII Credits
  6. 5 of 6.5 Claims ( 76.9%) Maj. Winton W. Marshall
  7. 5 of 6 Claims ( 83.3%) 1/Lt. James H. Kasler
  8. 5 of 5 Claims (100.0%) Capt. Richard S. Becker
  9. 3 of 5 Claims (60.0%) Maj. Richard D. Creighton
  10. 2 of 5 Claims (40.0%) Capt. Ralph D. ‘Hoot’ Gibson

Korean War Russian Aces -Source http://www.acepilots.com/russian/rus_aces.html

  1. 12 of 19 Claims (63.2%) Yevgeni G. Pepelyayev –Requires Further Evaluation –See Below
  2. 10 of 17 Claims (58.8%) Lev Kirilovich Shchukin
  3. 7 of 13 Claims (53.8%) Sergei M. Kramarenko
  4. 5 of 6 Claims (83.3%) Anatoly M. Karelin
  5. 5 of 8 Claims (62.5%) Semen A. Fedorets
  6. 5 of 11 Claims (45.4%) Stepan A. Bahayev
  7. 4 of 6 Claims (66.7%) Nikolai I. Ivanov
  8. 4 of 8 Claims (50.0%) Aleksandre P. Smorchkov
  9. 4 of 8 Claims (50.0%) Serafim P. Subbotin
  10. 4 of 10 Claims (40.0%) Dmitri A. Samoylov
  11. 3 of 5 Claims (60.0%) Boris S. Abakumov
  12. 3 of 5 Claims (60.0%) Grigorii N. Berelidze
  13. 3 of 6 Claims (50.0%) Arkadii S. Boitsov
  14. 3 of 6 Claims (50.0%) Grigorii I. Ges
  15. 3 of 9 Claims (33.3%) Mikhail I. Mihin
  16. 3 of 11 Claims (27.3%) Grigorii U. Ohay
  17. 2 of 6 Claims (33.3%) Fiodor A. Shebanov
  18. 2 of 6 Claims (33.3%) Nikolai M. Zameskin
  19. 2 of 7 Claims (28.6%) V. N. Alfeyev
  20. 2 of 8 Claims (25.0%) Grigorii I. Pulov
  21. 2 of 9 Claims (22.2%) Dmitri P. Oskin
  22. 2 of 10 Claims (20.0%) Pavel S. Milaushkin
  23. 2 of 11 Claims (18.2%) Mikhail S. Ponomaryev
  24. 2 of 11 Claims (18.2%) Konstantin N. Sheberstov
  25. 2 of 12 Claims (16.7%) Ivan V. Suchkov

Korean War Russian Ace -RECORDS REQUIRING FURTHER EVALUATION
Nikolai V. Sutyagin
1.46 of 21 Claims (07.0%) Minimum: PROPORTIONAL METHOD JoeB
5 of 21 Claims (23.8%) Possible: PROPORTIONAL METHOD with ‘Benefit of Doubt’ JoeB
12 of 21 Claims (57.1%) Possible: -Source http://www.acepilots.com/russian/rus_aces.html

Vietnamese Aces -Source http://www.acepilots.com/vietnam/viet_aces.html

  1. 7 of 9 Claims (77.8%) Nguyen Van Coc
  2. 5 of 6 Claims (83.3%) Nguyen Doc Soat
  3. 5 of 6 Claims (83.3%) Vu Ngoc Dinh
  4. 5 of 7 Claims (71.4%) Nguyen Van Bay
  5. 3 of 6 Claims (50.0%) Nguyen Danh Kinh
  6. 3 of 8 Claims (37.5%) Nguyen Hong Nhi
  7. 2 of 6 Claims (33.3%) Nguyen Ngoc Do
  8. 2 of 6 Claims (33.3%) Nguyen Nhat Chieu
  9. 2 of 6 Claims (33.3%) Le Thanh Dao
  10. 2 of 6 Claims (33.3%) Le Hai
  11. 1 of 5 Claims (20.0%) Nguyen Van Nghia
  12. 1 of 6 Claims (16.6%) Nguyen Tien Sam
  13. 1 of 6 Claims (16.6%) Luu Huy Chao
  14. 1 of 7 Claims (14.3%) Dang Ngoc Ngu
  15. 1 of 8 Claims (12.5%) Pham Thanh Ngan

INSTRUCTIONS: TO MAKE THIS PROCESS EASIER, PLEASE COPY THIS CHART AND THEN MAKE YOUR ADDITIONS/CORRECTIONS IN THE FORMAT ALREADY USED. IF YOU STONGLY DISAGREE WITH ANOTHER POSTER, PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE THEIR CALCULATION, BUT RATHER PASTE YOUR REVISED FIGURES BENEATH AS A BASIS FOR FURTHER RESEARCH/DEBATE –THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS!

Laurent Rizzotti’s PROPORTIONAL METHOD:

Claims can also be divided into three categories (this applies mainly to large scale fights in WWII):

  1. Verified: the Target is Identified and Went Down, or the Unit is Identified and has as many losses than the claims of its opponent.
  2. Uncertain: Target not identified, at least one loss known but more claims than losses.
  3. Invalid: the target is identified, or his unit, and wasn’t destroyed though perhaps damaged

When you have one side claim 70 victories and shooting down 50 aircraft, you will probably have something like 10 valid claims and 60 Uncertain ones.

A method to try to get closer to the real score of WWII pilots will be to use the US method of using fractions for claims.

For example, in the above case, the 10 pilots having claimed identified targets (location and time corresponding, away from the main battle and so on) will be given full credit (1 claim = 1 victory) and the 60 other claims, corresponding to the remaining 40 losses, will be valued each 40/60 = 0.666 victory… This is as close as you can get in many cases.

THE PROPORTIONAL METHOD MUST REMAIN AS AS SUB-CATEGORY TO VERIFIED CLAIMS UNLESS NO OTHER METHOD OF CALCULATION IS USED –EXAMPLE BELOW

31 of 57 Claims ( 54.4%) Pilot X (PROPORTIONAL METHOD 36 of 57 Claims 63.2%)

Already I think it is safe to say that we can reach a historical conclusion! So far the results reflect exceedingly well on Jasta 11 -it seems the unit maintained an exceptional degree of integrity in making claims –and bestows even further credit on their ‘meister’ Manfred von Richthofen. Perhaps this is consequent to MvR’s mantra to “Bring them down burning!” This contrasts with a liberal outlook on claiming, allegedly taken by some JGs in WWII.
These results will also undoubtedly place an even greater gap between Jasta 11 and any rival unit in terms of its status as an elite unit.

Jasta 11: 239 of 296 Claims (80.7%) have some basis in Allied Records -Source Graeme )
Note: These do not include 8 Balloons and 28 claims by MvR as commandant of JG1.

Richthofen’s Jasta 11 ‘Bloody April’ 1917 Gang
33 of 33 Claims (100.0%) Kurt Wolff*
30 of 30 Claims (100.0%) Karl Allmenröder*
74 of 80 Claims ( 92.5%) Manfred von Richthofen
11 of 12 Claims ( 91.7%) Sebastien Festner
25 of 30 Claims ( 83.3%) Karl-Emil Schäfer
33 of 40 Claims ( 82.5%) Lothar von Richthofen
206 of 225 Claims ( 91.6%) EXCEPTIONAL CLAIM VERACITY!

“Bring them down burning! Get the plane you are after and make it burn.”
-Manfred von Richthofen (74VV)

“I hope he roasted all the way down.”
-Edward ‘Mick’ Mannock (15VV) upon learning of MvR’s death.