Panzer projects & prototypes.

True, I would have used the guns on that thing to fill the gaps in the atlantic wall instead of spending moneyin a machine that will probaly go somthing like 5km/h and will take days to reach the piont it is most needed.

If I were the Germans I would build a big gun to blow up the ships in the channel before they can get into range and thus destroy a lot of the infasion force, but you must have rule the skies to make it work because it will be a big target unless you hid it well wich is not easy.

Henk

:? Can you say “Complete waste of resources” :lol: … and like someone said… would be a prime target for the Allied fighter bomber crews!

Well, my english is not always so good but I try my best, but yes that is what I meant. Would you spend moneyy in something like that if your country is bombed?

Henk

Porsche Typ 205, Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus

The Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus (Sd.Kfz 205) is the heaviest tank with completed working prototypes built during World War II. The basic design known as the VK70001/Porsche Type 2005 was suggested by Ferdinand Porsche to Adolf Hitler in June of 1942, who subsequently approved it. The design up to then had been the culmination of work done by Porsche who had won the contract for the heavy tank that March. Work on the design began in earnest and the first prototype would be ready in 1943 and was initially received the name Mammut (Mammoth). This was reportedly changed to Mäuschen (Mousie) in December of 1942 and finally Maus (Mouse) in February of 1943.

The development of super heavy tank started as early as 1941, when Krupp started the studies of superheavy Soviet tanks. In early 1942, Krupp produced designs of Tiger-Maus (VK7001) and PzKpfw VII Lowe (VK7201), but on March 5/6th of 1942, order for heavier tank was placed. Lowe never reached the prototype stage but paved the way for their successor’s development. On March 21/22nd of 1942, Porsche received the contract for new 100-ton Panzer - VK10001 / Porsche Typ 205. On April 14/15th, it specified that new 100-ton tank must carry at least 100 rounds of ammunition. VK10001 was to be developed by Professor Ferdinand Porsche and Dr.Muller (Krupp) at the personal demand of Adolf Hitler made in May of 1942. He demanded 120-ton “indestructible” super-heavy tank armed with high performance L/60 or L/72 gun.

The task of producing hulls, turrets and armament was given to Krupp, while Alkett was responsible for the assembly. First specifications demanded that armament should consist of 150mm L/40 gun and 20mm MG151/20 heavy machine gun, while usage of 128mm L/50 was under consideration. It was stated that prototype should be operational before the Spring of 1943. On June 23rd of 1942, Porsche provided their design for improved VK10001 armed with turret mounted 150mm L/37 and 105mm L/70 guns. Porsche promised that first prototype will be ready in May of 1943. In December of 1942, new armaments such as 150mm gun, 127mm naval gun, 128mm Flak and the longest version of 128mm were considered. Also in the same month, it was restated that first vehicle was to be ready in Summer of 1943, followed by the production 5 per month. First official names VK10001 and Porsche Typ 205 (“Mammoth”) were used in April of 1942, followed by Maeuschen (Mousy) in December of 1942 and Maus (Mouse) in February of 1943. In January of 1943, Hitler decided that the Maeuschen was to be fitted with turret mounted with 128mm and 75mm guns, while turret mounted with 150mm KwK 44 L/38 or 170mm KwK 44 gun was to be designed for future use. Specification for ammunition storage space were never met and decreased by further modifications.

From the designs emerged 188 tonnes heavy monster. On May 1st of 1943, wooden mockup of the Maus was presented to Adolf Hitler, who agreed on production and ordered series of 150 to be produced. On November 4 of 1943, development of Maus was to be ceased and only one was to be completed for evaluation. In October of 1943, original order placed by Hitler for 150 vehicles was cancelled.

Maus turret.

On December 24th of 1943, first turretless prototype was completed by Alkett and was put to the extensive tests. During the tests, the Maus could hardly move due to its enormous weight and power/weight ratio. First prototype V1 (Maus I), was powered by modified Daimler-Benz MB 509 (developed from DB 603 aircraft engine), which could not provide planned speed of 20km/h but only 13km/h in ideal conditions. Also problems arouse with suspension system which had to be modified in order to take the weight of the vehicle. Another problem that emerged from its weight, was that simply there were no bridges able to take the its weight. To overcome this problem Maus had to be provided with a “snorkel” arrangement which allowed it to submerse to the maximum depth of 8 meters. In December of 1943, V1 was fitted with (Belastungsgewicht) simulated turret (representing the weight of the turret) and was tested. Maus I was applied with camouflage paint and marked with red star and hammer and sickle disguised as a captured Russian vehicle.

In March of 1944, second prototype V2 (Maus II) which differed in numerous details from V1 was produced. V2 lacked the powerplant, which was fitted in mid 1944. On April 9th of 1944, Krupp produced the turret, which in June of 1944, was delivered and then mounted on V2 and tested. Krupp produced a turret mounted with 128mm KwK 44 L/55 gun with coaxial 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5 gun and 7.92mm MG34, providing the Maus with an enormous firepower. Maus’ main gun could penetrate front, side and rear armor (at 30 degrees from vertical) of Sherman, Cromwell, Churchill, T-34/85 and JS-2 tanks at ranges of 3500+ meters. Turret included mounts for rangefinder (by Zeiss), but was not fully finished and some of the missing components were shipped later on.

Maus I was to be fitted with Krupp’s second turret but it was never delivered and it remained fitted with simulated turret. On July 25th of 1944, Krupp reported that two hulls will be available soon and two more later on. On July 27th of 1944, Krupp was ordered to scrap those four hulls. On August 19th of 1944, Krupp informed Porsche that it was order to stop further work on Maus. In September of 1944, second prototype started its tests. It was installed with Daimler-Benz MB 517 diesel engine that made little difference in comparison with previously used engine. Advanced electric steering system was used to steer the vehicle. Its running gear designed by Skoda, consisted of double-wheeled trucks supported by twelve return rollers with 1100mm wide tracks. The crew had to be provided with oxygen supplied by built-on fans/ventilators when all the hatches were closed.

In order to transport the Maus, special 14-axle railroad transport car (Verladewagon) was produced by Graz-Simmering-Pauker Works in Vienna. From mid January to early October of 1944, trials took place at armored vehicle proving grounds in Kummersdorf (near Berlin) and then at Porsche proving grounds at Boblingen. Tests were long, delayed by engine failures and production delays caused by Allied bomber attacks on German factories. During tests, it was determined that in case of any failure each Maus would have to be towed by two other Maus tanks. It is also reported that Germans worked on Flakzwilling 8.8cm auf Maus, which was to be Maus mounted with a modified turret housing two 88mm Flak 43 guns and used as heavy Flakpanzer.

Some sources state that according to Porsche, Hitler’s aim for the Maus was to plug holes in the Atlantic coastal defenses on the Western Front, where it’s limited range and mobility wouldn’t have been too much of a hindrance. The popular version states that V2 prototype was blown up by the personnel at proving grounds in Kummersdorf, while some sources state that actually V2 saw combat while defending the facility at Kummersdorf. When war ended, almost finished V1 turret and third hull were found at Krupp facilities in Essen.

Overall, Maus was an interesting design but it would be of limited combat value because of its poor mobility and heavy weight making it more of a mobile fortification rather than a super tank. One fully assembled example (V2 turret mounted on V1 hull) was tested at Kubinka in 1951/52 and can be seen today in the Museum of Armored Forces in Kubinka (near Moscow) in Russia

Length: 10.09 m
Width: 3.67 m
Height: 3.63 m
Weight: 188 ton
Speed: 13 km/h on road
Range: 160 on roads, 62 off road.
Primary armament: 128 mm KwK44 L/5
Secondary armament: co-axial 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5
7.92mm MG34
Armor (V2) Front lower hull (Glacis plate approximately 200 mm (8 in), sloped at 35 degrees to the vertical.

Side hull: 180mm (7 in)
Rear hull: 160mm (6.3 in)
Turret front: 240mm (9.5 in)
Turret sides: 200mm (8 in)
Turret roof: 60mm (2.3 in)

Ground Pressure 140 kPa (20 psi)
Production 1 complete (V2)

1 complete but with dummy turret (V1)
9 total at various levels of completion. (at Essen and Kummersdorf)

Power plant: 1080 hp MB509 gasoline (V1)
1200 hp MB517 Diesel (V2)
Crew: 6

10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa
“Dickermax”

In September of 1939, German High Command ordered Krupp to design a heavy panzerjager armed with 105 or 128mm gun that would be able to destroy enemy tanks and heavily fortified positions (such as pillboxes). In early/mid 1941, Krupp-Gruson produced two prototypes of such a vehicle and on March 31st of 1941, first was presented to Adolf Hitler. The Fuhrer ordered further development of heavy panzerjagers armed with either 105mm or 128mm guns. He also ordered that the production of Selbstfahrlafette 10.5cm must start in the Spring of 1942, but it was later on cancelled in favour of other vehicles.

Selbstfahrlafette 10.5cm was armed with Krupp’s 105mm K 18 L/52 gun with limited traverse of 8 degrees (left and right) and based on modified Panzer IV Ausf A’s chassis. The gun itself was developed by Krupp and Rheinmetall from 105mm sK 18 L/52 heavy field gun and was mounted with a muzzle break. The gun was capable of penetrating 111mm of 30 degrees sloped armor plate at 2000 meters. It was mounted in lightly armored (armor protection ranged from 10mm to 50mm), open at rear superstructure and for local defense machine gun (7.92mm MG34) was carried inside as well. Vehicle was powered by Maybach HL 120 TRM engine with total power of 300 horsepower (same as Panzer IV) allowing it to travel at the speed of 40km/h.

Originally, two prototypes were assigned to Panzerjager Abteilung 521 in preparations for upcoming attack on Gibraltar. At the beginning of Operation Barbarossa, both were assigned to 3rd Panzer Division and were troop tested. One of them was lost when its ammunition exploded (as reported it was then captured the Soviets) and the second one was brought back to the factory in October of 1941. The further fate of the surviving vehicle is unknown. Both prototypes proved to be very effective against Soviet KV-I, KV-II and T-34 tanks. Serial production did not take place, while even limited numbers would prove to be very useful to the front line troops faced with superior Soviet armor in 1941/42.

Weight: 25000kg

Crew: 5 men

Engine: Maybach HL 120 TRM / 12-cylinder / 300hp

Speed: 40km/h

Range: Road: 200km

Lenght: 7.52m

Width: 2.84m

Height: 3.25m

Armament: 105mm K 18 L/52 & 7.92mm MG34
(1 x MG34 - carried inside)

Ammo: 105mm - 20-25 rounds

7.92mm - 600 rounds

Armor (mm/angle): Front Hull: 50/12
Front Superstructure: 50/10
Front Turret: 30/14
Gun Mantlet: 50/10
Side Hull: 20/0
Side Superstructure: 20/0
Side Turret: 20/14
Rear Hull: 20/10
Rear Superstructure: 20/10
Rear Turret: 20/20
Hull Top / Bottom: 10/90
Superstructure Top / Bottom: 12/90
Turret Top: open

I do believe that there were guns in the Atlantic wall that could reach the UK mainland. There were guns at Dover Castle which could hit France.

I did not know that. Thank you Panzerknacker that was realy great info. I saw pictures of the Maus where there is dents in the frontal armour where itwas shot at by guns. That is truly the biggest monster I have ever seen when it comes to tanks.

Henk

Or attacks by sapper infantry…

12.8cm Selbstfahrlafette L/61
(Panzerselbstfahrlafette V)
"Sturer Emil / Stubborn Emil

Design of Selbstfahrlafette 12.8cm was based on Henschel’s prototype of Panzer IV’ successor - VK3001(H). In March of 1941, two VK3001(H) were ready to be converted into heavy anti-tank gun carriers - Panzerjagers. Rheinmetall-Borsig provided the 128mm PaK 40 L/61 gun for the main armament, which was developed in 1939, from 128mm Flak gun. Both chassis had to be modified in order to mount heavy 128mm gun. Major modifications consisted of the enlargement of the chassis (addition of one road-wheel, extension of the hull) and addition of the heavily armored open-top compartment mounted over the engine compartment.

Fighting compartment was mounted in the rear of the vehicle and housed powerful 128mm anti-tank gun with limited traverse of 7 degrees to the left and to the right. Space inside the fighting compartment operated by the crew of five, allowed storage for only 15 to 18 rounds. One 7.92mm MG34 was mounted in the hull for local defence.

From August of 1941 to March of 1942, Rheinmetall-Borsig and Henschel produced two prototypes, which were troop tested in Russia in mid 1942. Both prototypes performed successfully but the development of this project was cancelled in favour of Tiger I. One of Selbstfahrlafette 12.8cm (pictured above) saw service with 521st schwere Panzerjaeger Abteilung and second one with 2nd Panzer Division as late as July of 1942. One of two prototypes (from 2nd Panzer Division) was destroyed in combat, while other one (from 521st sPzJagAbt with 22 kills rings painted on the gun barrel) was captured intact in January of 1943 in Stalingrad area. It was shown at the captured equipment exhibitions in Moscow’s Gorky Park in 1943 and 1944.It can be seen today in the Museum of Armored Forces in Kubinka.

The “normal” panzergranate 39 in this caliber (128mm) could penetrate more than 150mm of rolled homogeneus armor at 1000 meters distance.

Funny looking thing hey. It is quite low shooting if you have a problem wiht bombers.

Henk

Well, is because the Mauser round is short compared with the tipical 2cm Flak Reinmethall round, the advantage of the mauser canons is that they had more rate of fire and weight much less

Landwasserschlepper

Development of Landwasserschlepper (Land-Water-Tractor) started in 1936, but first 7 vehicles were completed in July of 1940. Additional 14 were produced by March of 1941. It was designed by Rheinmetall-Borsig as an amphibious vehicle for the use by engineers but it lacked storage and loading/unloading access. To overcome this problem, special 10 and 20 ton amphibious trailers were made. It carried 3 to 5 men crew and 20 passangers. Another problem was that it was unarmored and could operate effectively in the combat area. LWS saw service in Russia and North Africa.

Despite being unarmored the LWS probe to be a extremely useful vehicle in the always changing terrain conditions of the Russian lanscape.

Weight: 17000kg
Crew: 5 men
Engine: Maybach HL 120TRM / 12-cylinder / 300hp
Speed: Road: 35km/h
Water: 12km/h
Range: Road: 150km
Lenght: 7.68m
Width: 2.34m
Height: 2.65m

Interesting, but I can understand why they could not put armour on it because it would sink.

They could have fitted a gun for a bit of support.

Henk

Aditional pics of the Land-water-tractor.

Sd.Kfz.165/1
10.5cm leFH 18/1(Sf) auf Geschützwagen IVb

( edited by author, expanded and corrected in later post)

Great info Panzerknacker and I wonder why they made the turret to turn only 70 degrees? I does look great and it would have looked even greater with a Panther or King Tiger chassis.

What do you think?

Henk

I like more using the Panther and Tiger chassis to the full 360ª turn turret Medium.Heavy tanks.

The Self propelled Howitzer can be put almost in any tracked vehicle.

Alkett-Raümgerät

This strange AFV was found by the Soviet troops at Kummersdorf proving grounds in 1945 and was then stored at the Soviet military base in Dresden. In 1947, it was delivered to Kubinka proving grounds for tests together with other German AFVs. The tests could not be completed because the minesweeping mechanisms of the mineroller were badly damaged during the transportation and only movement and tactical tests were made. The design was the joint project by Alkett, Krupp and Mercedes-Benz and construction was finished in early 1942.

Front side.

The appearance of this AFV was very strange and unusual. The vehicle’s body was mounted on the heavy gun frame with the cabin containing the fighting compartment, engine and the turret from PzKpfw I armed by the two MG-34 machine guns for close defense. The body armor was 20 to 40mm thick. The bottom had to withstand the explosive power of mines and was 80mm thick. There were inside armor plates in this AFV. Turning the mineroller was done by the small steering wheel placed in the rear part of the body.

Rear side.

Driving was done by turning of the steering wheel and via the gear selector The wheels were mounted with 75mm wide brake shoes that were controlled directly from the fighting compartment. The moving parts of this mineroller were caterpillar trucks with shoe pads fixed onto the driving wheels. They were similar to those used on wheels of the German heavy field guns in the WWI. The explosives theoretically could not damage those pads. The tests showed that the weight of this AFV, its low speed and height made an easy target for enemy artillery. This AFV was constructed under the influence of high panzer losses on the Soviet minefields. It was to go before the tanks in the offensive operations. It appears that the designers understood that this AFV was useless in comparison with the ordinary tanks mounted with mineplows and was abandoned at the proving grounds. Today Alkett-Raümgerät can be seen in the Museum of Armored Forces in Kubinka in Russia.

Great info and pics. I never knew the Germans build somthing so strange and ugly. Dam, it looks like all German heavy tanks or such stuff were slow.

Do you Panzerknacker think it could have been a success in combat, I do not think so like you said the Russians found that it were to slow and it had to great height to be able to be successful in combat because artillary could take it out.

Henk

The turret designed for the Leopard was used in the Puma, which incidentally was a proper Recce vehicle!