Russian industrial effort?

I know that Russia produced a vast amount of equipment and munitions during WWII, and that it moved some of its industrial capacity eastwards during WWII to keep it out of range of the German advance, but I don’t know much more than that about what must have been a huge effort.

Or where Russia’s own resources came from.

It’s a different effort from the US which wasn’t under attack and didn’t have to move its industrial capacity anywhere.

Does anyone have any summaries or links that give a general overview?

I’m not looking for great detail. I just want to get a general appreciation of what happened.

Well i have only rather common knowlege about it.
I knowthe main problem was to build the bildings for the evacuated plants, roads and infrastructure.
I have read when the from Charcov was evacuated the tanks plant to the Cheliajbinsk ( Ural) the plant began the work under open sky becouse the bildings was not still ready. It was unloaded right into the pure field.
Can you imagine the work on the open sky in the winter when the temperatire is about -30-40 C. Nevertheles the plant had made the first tanks in that period.
The whole power of production was reached only in the end of 1942 when the basic infrastructure were build and the material supplies had much better.

That would cause enormous problems working with and welding metal.

They’d have to find some way of stabilising the temperature of metal before and after welding etc.

Well,

Soviet Union stopped building tractors in many places to build battle tanks, their economy would have been ruined but luckily allied shipped in tractors.

Soviet Union stopped building locomotives pretty much completely to build battle tanks, their economy and transport system would have been ruined, but luckily allied shipped in locomotives.

The same thing goes with almost anything.

And several natural resources were also shipped to Soviet Union, enabling them to focus on thing or two.

Yes, Soviet Union built a lot of battle tanks, but 100% of their population would have died without allied food, natural resources, trucks, locomotives, tractors, etc etc etc etc etc etc. because they completely ignored basic needs of society/economy.

And why could soviet forces fight fast/moving/motorized war in 1944, 1945? Because allied shipped in fuel (better than soviet mud, sorry, fuel), because allied shipped in locomotives to move troops, because allied shipped in trucks to move troops, because allied shipped in food in practical tinned way to keep soviet soldiers alive, while many soviet aces flew in allied aircrafts…

_

By November 1942 Soviet aero engine production had reached five hundred units and rising. During 1943 Soviet aircraft production would catch and surpass German production, an amazing effort considering the dislocation to the manufacturing base.

Regards digger.

It’s these sorts of production figures that I’d like to know more about.

My understanding is that the USSR consistently produced more planes than Germany during the time it was fighting Germany, and more artillery and tanks.

It would seem to be better for the USSR to keep producing its own locomotives which were critical for transporting its military production and troops than relying on shipping them as large and heavy items occupying a lot of shipping which might never arrive. Probably the same with tractors and other agricultural machinery necessary for food production.

And several natural resources were also shipped to Soviet Union, enabling them to focus on thing or two.

This also is part of what I’d like to know more about. Just how self-sufficient was the USSR in coal, oil, steel, aluminium and so on?

What a bulshit are you writing alephh.
Sorry but where did you get the information about 100% of population which 'must die" without allies shipping.
Do you have the realible statistic of soviet production/lend leas during the WW2?

Well mate yes this is true.
The soviet industry was able to constantly increase the war prodaction.
Particulary it was the direct resault of lend lise supplies .

With the usual caveats about wiki etc. this is a start on the comparisons of weapons productions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II

and these are a breakdown of the land-lease aid provided to the Soviet Union:

http://wio.ru/tank/ll.htm

http://www.o5m6.de/Numbers.html

and for a breakdown of the raw materials sent to Russia:

http://www.geocities.com/mark_willey/lend.html

Thanks Amrit
nice conclusion is here

In short words: “Thank you, friends! You helped a lot!
But the second front in Europe in 1942 (or at least in 1943;
instead of almost useless war in Africa) would be much better…”

Chevan mate. That’s cause for a new thread.

Do you want to start it?:slight_smile:

Regards digger.

Couple of points:

Soviet Union lacked critically (just to mention couple of natural resources) rubber and copper. Without Allied shipping many many many things would have not been build in Soviet Union - and furthermore, without getting these natural resources from outside, Soviot Union must have guided a LOT OF RESOURCES to finding/mining/producing/refining these resources or their alternatives.

Over 50% of aluminum used in Soviet Union came from UK/US. Without this, Soviet aircrafts would have be build out of snow, or some material like that.

Soviet Union build just 265,000 trucks. US shipped in 409,500 trucks with no trouble. And you have to remember that soviet trucks were old inefficient useless models - while american trucks were the newest efficient models available.

1942-1945 Soviet Union produced 92 locomotives, allied shipped in almost 2000 locomotives. Without these, the Soviet Union wouldn’t have means to move around troops, not to mention move around food to people - without food - well, I’m under the impression that even soviet people need to eat.

In 1941 Soviet Union produced 30,000 railcars, 1942-1945 ONLY 1087. This would have meant COLLAPSE of food delivery, but luckily allied shipped in over 10,000 railcars.

Soviet Union didn’t even bother to produce rails, I mean, how in the world they thought they were gonna move their trains around? But luckily allied shipped in over 90% over soviet rails.

Over 35% (latest figures from this centery) of explosives used in Eastern Front came from US and UK. Obviously Stalin think about blowing up german Tiger tanks with potatoes, but luckily allied helped him out - it’s a lot easier with explosives.

And let’s take a look at soviet food situation: pre-war Soviet Union had troubles at feeding it’s population. End of 1941, Nazis had capture 40%-80% of sugar, pigs, fields, grains… Let’s say Soviet Union had 50% of it’s food resources left. After army took away tractors from farms, and Soviet Union didn’t produce too many tractors, (add to that the fact that best male population was in the army) possibilities to actually make good usage of that 50% of food resources was low. Let’s say soviet workeds miracles and 85 years old grand-mothers were as strong as tractors, and they managed to use 35% of food resources. Now, how on earth you are going to transport that food around Soviet Union to civilian population and to troops at frontlines - Because Soviet Union didn’t build locomotives, or traincars, or even rails, or trucks…? Add to that a very cold winter, looting, chaos, and the fact that frontline troops were in prime position for getting the food.

Considering above, how on earth do you see Soviet Union making it without allied support without totally collapsing due the lack of food?

State where country produces 10-50% (depending how you crunch the numbers) of needed food per year, is simply not sustainable several years.

Even thou Soviet Union always felt good about the production evacuation, it wasn’t all that great. A large amount of factories were lost. And, it took a looooooooon time to soviet production to start a work again - pig iron production fell 60-70%, steel production fell 50-60%, coal production fell 60% comparing 1942 to 1940.

Compare all this to Nazi Germany where military production was just a tiny percent of all production (mostly civilian production) and you start to see that behind all the aggressive boasting nazis weren’t ready/prepared/geared up for a war.

Personally I think that Nazi Germany would have easily conquered Soviet Union if:

  1. Hitler would have prepared german production for war.

  2. or Allied had not supported Soviet Union.

… I know it’s not a very popular opinion, but after a decade of number crunching I feel that way. :slight_smile:

_

Of course EVERYBODY KNOWS that no 100% die, but there is this funny thing called LANGUAGE, in which there are MEANINGS behind words and phrases.

100% = means “seriously in trouble”, and in this context that they would have not been able to make in their own without allied support.

Heaven’s sake, why everything has to be taken to literally, even if you’re (more or less) clearly overexaggerating. :frowning:

I’ll get mi coat.

_

Oh, how so?

Pig Iron production fell 1941, and fell in 1942… the same with grains, coal, aluminum, rubber, oil, locomotives, tractors, trucks… the list is long, almost endless.

Of course, eventually production of two or three products started to rise (battle tanks, aircrafts) because the critical natural resources Soviet Union was desperately lacking (aluminum, rubber, copper) were shipped in by Allied.

But overall, there were hundreds, thousands of products which simple were not produced or their production numbers fell many years.

_

Thanks to everybody who’s posted so far.

It’s a very informative discussion.

Although I think I might unintentionally have re-started the Winter War. :smiley:

Sorry, I can’t resist this off topic excursion.

Don’t underrate potato guns. :smiley:

Swedish potato gun can kill cow. http://nfttu.blogspot.com/2006/02/swedish-potato-guns-that-can-take-down.html

American potato bazooka. http://www.americanaircannons.com/about.html

Potato mountain gun. http://www.geocities.com/godforgnomes/Huge_spud_gun.jpg

100mm heavy recoil gun (or mortar). http://blogs.pcworld.com/tipsandtweaks/archives/002626.html

Sidearm. http://www.bullnet.co.uk/shops/test/images/spud.jpg

Also medium and heavy artillery and anti-tank pumpkin guns.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/spud-gun-14.jpg
http://science.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=spud-gun.htm&url=http://www.punkinchunkin.com

I think one area we forget is the Soviet people themselves and the sacrifices they made to keep their country in the war. the mere fact the Soviet Union was able to produce an abundance of tanks, artillery, aircraft, infantry weapons was for two reasons.

Lend Lease by virtue of the equipment supplied was able to take pressure off the industrial base. This allowed Soviet industry to concentrate on the front line weaponry they needed to overcome the Germans.

Secondly the ordinary Soviet citizen working around the clock in the factories, mills, steel plants etc performed an almost superhuman effort in appalling conditions to give their armed forces the weapons they needed.

Regards digger.

This underscores an important point in comparisons with US, UK etc, which is that Soviet workers were often used to harsher industrial and other conditions than workers in the other Allied nations.

They probably did more with less in many instances, including rations.

What would have had American and English workers (and Australians) whingeing about being worked too hard and not having proper conditions, and even downing tools, would have been accepted without complaint by many Soviet workers.

It’s an oddity that some communist-inspired and Moscow-aligned unions in Australia would not have accepted the same conditions for their Australian workers that existed in the ‘workers’ paradise’ in the USSR. Maybe it was the same in the UK and US.

Not to forget the Wharfies strike which prevented the loading of ships bound for New Guinea, until the army was called in.

If that happened in the Soviet Union or Nazi germany the cosequences would have been rather dire indeed.

Regards digger.

What about women working in industry in the USSR?

In the UK and US there was a reserve of womanpower to replace the men taken from industry for military service.

Was it the same in the USSR or were women previously working in industry at much the same level as during the war?