I open this topic to discuss about the Russkaya Osvoboditel’naya Armiya, the russian soldiers whom fought to the german side.
MAte i think you forgot to add the line in your poll.
-They were the people who naivly thought the Hitler let them to create the “independent” Russia ( i.e. the pitful rest of Russia in case of Germans victory).
Personaly i think they were a mixture of traitors, nazy simpatized peoples, peoples who had a tendency toward the violence and eventualy a moral-weak peoples who simply tryed to survive in the unhuman condition of German concentration camp.
His commander of general Vlasov was at the same time both tragic and braive men. But he being the traitor had a bed final.
MAte i think you forgot to add the line in your poll.
-They were the people who naivly thought the Hitler let them to create the “independent” Russia ( i.e. the pitful rest of Russia in case of Germans victory).
I think the ukranians were the most atracted by that idea.
ROA video:
A little more , extract of “Foreign Volunteers in the Whermacht” by Carlos C. Jurado.
The large part of the Ukraine warred against the fascism, for the Germans there were only benderovtsy from the western Ukraine, yes there were traitors from other parts, but just as everywhere! So I lead to what, only West of the Ukraine was for the Nazis and that, not entire, recall partisans under the management Of kovpaka and Medvedev, Kovpak themselves there was Ukrainian, but he fought with the aggressors. The people from the western Ukraine entered into its force. So that only banderovtsy m upa fought on the side of fascists, entire remaining part was against them, and now the large part of the population this supports!
Sorry, Panzerknacker? You russian?
Common! Do no insult him! 
Chevan I don’t I agree with you often, but in this case you have right. I think that only Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian could belive that they fight for independend, but rest if belive it was naivly.
Sorry, Panzerknacker? You russian?
I am not, I am Argentine.
Cossacks, the most distintive of all USSR units in german service.
Bodyguards of the german Commander Von Panwitz, note the long sabres.
Polar i’ve apreciated it.
But i think the Baltick peoples were also a bit naive to colloborate with Nazy.
Firstly only Latvians were recognized as Aryans.
Sec did you hear about germans plans to replace the baltic population by the germans settlers.
So i will not sure for the succesfull fate of baltic peoples if the Germany had win the war.
Now do you see Amigo the difference between the Ukrainians (who were a low race like and russians and were a mostly fiendly fro russians ) and your limited knowledges about them.
Only a small part of Western Ukraine supported the Nazy. And BTW they participated in the atrosoties toward the civil population ( polish and ukrainians).
Interesting
I alweys think that Latvians were recognized by Nazi as germanic tribe and word " Aryans" was use as describe all nationas without jews and roms
Can you tell me about more?
The Nazy race hierarchy contained not only arians , jews and roms.
Hitles “scientists” had a whole race theory according that all white-nations peoples was devided into a groups of “arian cleanliness”. For instance the italians and romanians was not equal at the Germans but they were much more better then the slavs.
The other nation includin asians ( and even the Germans allis Japanese) were somewhere betwen the monkey and african aborigen.
Now do you see Amigo the difference between the Ukrainians (who were a low race like and russians and were a mostly fiendly fro russians ) and your limited knowledges about them.
Only a small part of Western Ukraine supported the Nazy. And BTW they participated in the atrosoties toward the civil population ( polish and ukrainians).
All right thanks, but still there was a lot of ukranians serving in the Whermacht, I have no the figure, I try to post later.
And on the theme, if already we did affect pridateley, then to how much me it is known, Argentineans were very in good relations with the Nazis, not then whether? I’m not right?
What is the relationship of that with this topic ?, are you calling me nazi ?
R.O.A, the begin, Part I:
To be continued…
R.O.A, the begin, Part II:
The R.O.A finally fights:
Source: The foreing legions on the Whermacht, Vol IV. David Littlejohn.
Some heavy equipmente deployed by the Russkaia Osvoboditelnaia Armiia.
Captured Tank T-34/76 M1941.
Fighter-bomber Messerchmitt BF-109G-10, from an russian jasta. (jagd staffeln)
“The large part of the Ukraine warred against the fascism, for the Germans there were only benderovtsy from the western Ukraine, yes there were traitors from other parts, but just as everywhere!”
Vorontsov just repeats the cliches of the slanderous Soviet propaganda about the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (banderovtsy). If one says such things he will evidently believe the other cliches of the Soviet propaganda: the USSR in the 1930, and 50s was the most prosperous and happy state in the world. Stalin was the greatest humanist on earth. All the millions of citizerns killed by communists in the USSR never existed or deserved being killed etc. The truth is that all the relations between the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists - OUN (the political wing of UPA) and Germans was completetly torn in July 1941 after Germans had refused to tolerate the declaration of idependence proclaimed in by the Organization in Lviv. Germans immediately began repressions against Ukrainian nationalists and their supporters across Ukraine. Thousand of Ukrainians were arrested and send to concentrations camps. The leader of the OUN Stepan Bandera and among these people. Two Bandera’s brothers died from tortures in a German prison. Since the July 1941 all the armed groups of the OUN ( later transformed into the UPA ) waged war against German occupants. German high-rankers viewd OUN-UPA as a main threat to their dominantion in Ukraine.
In June 1943 German SS and police forces under the command of General von dem Bach-Zalewski, seen as an expert in fighting against guerrillas, attempted to destroy UPA-North in Volyn during Operation “BB” (Bandenbekampfung). He was chosen specifically by Himmler to destroy UPA in this operation. [3] During Operation “BB” Bach-Zalewski had under his command 10 battalions of motorized SS troops, 10,000 German and Polish police, 2 regiments of the Hungarian army, and three battalions of Cossacks organized from among Soviet POWs.[4] By August, this operation proved to be a military failure. During this struggle, on August 19-20 UPA captured the military center of Kamin Koshyrsky, defeating several German battalions and capturing large quantities of arms and ammunition.[4] General Bach-Zaleski was relieved of his command and replaced by General Prutzmann. Ultimately the German forces failed to destroy UPA or to establish control over the Volyn countryside.
OUN-UPA operated mainly in Western Ukraine because since 1921 to 1943 Western Ukraine was part of Poland and in spite of Polish opressions and persecutions aimed against Ukrianians it was possible to create a strong armed national resistance under the guidence of OUN. It was an impossible thing to do in the Soviet-dominated Ukraine where the whole population was terrorised by Stalin’s security forces NKVD and lived through the artificially created hunger ( holodomor ) that took the lives of about 10 milions of ethnic Ukrainians. Two years of the soviet occupation (1939 -1941) were not enough for them to pacify The West of Ukraine as they did it with the rest of Ukraine. When Greman invaded the Soviet Union OUN attempted to spread their actvities across Ukraine but these attempts were desperately opposed by both Germans and Soviet communists who aspiere to create a powerful partisan movement on their own and not let Ukrainian nationalists fill this niche. Add to that the campaign of terror against Ukrainian civillians in Western Ukraine launched by Poles from AK and other Polish organisation who openly declared their plans to restore Poland within the borders of XVII century. That’s why OUN-UPA had to concentrate on defending their bases in the west of Ukraine. They managed to defeat and oust Poles from Ukraine.
If there hadn’t been OUN-UPA Polish armed groups would have just massacred Ukrainians in Western Ukraine as they were indulged to do so by German authorities and instigated by Soviet communists.
For more detailed information go at least to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
Unlike the majority of other resistance movements in Europe who fought only against Germans OUN-UPA waged war against German, Poles and Soviet occupants without any foreign support. It is a unique case in the history of WW2 and post-war Europe. Fighters of OUN-UPA defended freedom and human dignity without thinking about the price they would have to pay.
That is one of the best articulated first post I ever seen.
welcome to our forum Kato.
Well mate,
we need to discuss these fact very, very carefully.
The open polish-ukrainian conflict which erupted during ww2 had two faces: Polish and Ukrainian.
I would like to avoid the answer for question: who started it, who commited first atrocities, because its pointless in my opinion. It doesn’t matter right now.
Some may say that Poles started to murder Ukrainians, and Ukrainians had to answer that, other will say that it was started inversly: Ukrainians murdered Poles first and that’s why Poles started to murder Ukrainians in revenge.
As I said: It doesn’t matter right now.
I would suggest that it would be much, much better to present a full image of that tragic events, when speaking about polish atrocities in Western Ukraine. Just don’t forget about ukrainian terror against Polish civilians.
Pozdrawiam,
Kovalski