Should We Ban SS avatars and other symbols of racist/neo-Nazi ideology?

[George_Eller]

Re: No fun with the hun???

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showpost.php?p=132382&postcount=21

@Ardee

First, as an aside before making a “proposal:” I may be over-something (e.g., -reacting, -reaching, -nit-picking), here, but the following just hit me. I know what FTG meant and that he was speaking casually, so this isn’t anything in his regard, but…

I just wanted to state/remind that whether or not that right is God-given, it was a right that might have been lost some 55 or 60 years ago, had it not been for those who redeemed it with their blood, tears, limbs and lives. I guess I’m just having a “Lest we forget…” moment here, and it was a strong one, so I let it out…

In any case, and not to go off-topic, I’d like to make a formal suggestion to the site administrators. I’ve stated elsewhere that I have mixed feelings about Stevey getting banned or not. I think the Mod’s decision was probably fair and appropriate – and it’s not like he can’t be banned-for-life in the future if he doesn’t change some things. And that’s where my suggestion comes in: I DO think that TWO of those things that ought to be required of him are 1) losing the “14/88” and 2) the prevention of his using the SS avatar or anything similar.

The first I would like to suggest become a site policy: that anyone who opts for a log-in name containing such blatantly racist/neo-Nazi symbology be presented with an immediate choice: change it within 24 hours or get banned. I think such names not only promote ideals many find to be offensive, but, just by being out there publicly, may also attract like-minded individuals to the site. I know others have voiced the same opinion; I’m just offering a draft wording of the rule as a starting point for discussion (if anybody wants to do so). And because they have shown themselves to have a propensity along such lines, when they are given their 24 or be banned notice, they should also receive an “official” warning about making racist/neo-Nazi posts, which if they ignore, they get banned.

The second change (avatar) is something I’m less sure about becoming a policy, but I do think it is something appropriate for this individual. I am glad his “SS” avatar is now gone, but I’m not sure if that will remain the case once he returns from his “vacation.” I think ruling out anything to do with the SS (including photos of soldiers, unit badges, symbols, or ANYTHING) as an avatar may also serve as a subtle reminder to him to “behave” every time he sees it. As a broader policy though, I have mixed thoughts – simply because, as somebody has already pointed out, there are lots of kids who think “SS” is “cool,” without understanding what they were really all about. While I personally would like to see that happen, I am also afraid it might open a can of worms: if somebody were to feel, for instance, that a Red Guards badge is promoting Stalinism or something like that. I mean, who would be the judge,and what would be the criteria? And if and when avatars becomes a “problem,” we can deal with it then.

So, that’s my thinking and the suggestion: Site-wide ban against log-in names containing neo-Nazi are racist components, and for Stevey as an individual, policing his avatar as necessary (or if that’s too much trouble, and if it’s possible to do so, just take away his ability to use an avatar, period).

What do you all think? And would the administrators here be open to such suggestions from members in any case?

I think that you have brought up some excellent points. I personally would not have a problem banning SS avatars and other symbols of racist/neo-Nazi ideology.

Concern over its recent proliferation has been brought up among the mods, and I feel that it should be seriously considered as official policy on this website.

[pdf27]

I have no issue with banning Neo-Nazi names/symbology/etc. of which Stevey’s 14/88 is a very clear example (indeed, my avatar is a response to one such long-departed moron). Actual Nazi symbols however I have greater issues with - for starters they are a part of the very history this forum exists to discuss.

Furthermore, where exactly do you draw the line? Stalinist Russia was very nearly as bad as Nazi Germany, as were a whole bunch of “National” fascist movements.

Should the success of a movement count as well as the intent? The British Union of Fascists were singularly incompetent (having the sh*t kicked out of them in the Battle of Cable Street before being interned during WW2) yet I have no doubt that had they been successful they would have been as bad as any other fascist group. Should we ban their symbols too?

While I (sort of) agree with the concept, I think this would be a nightmare to implement.

[navyson]

So if he starts his usual death to these people and death to those people and i love the ss in the pic section will that carry over to the forum? Such as perma ban? Or will we still give him benefit of doubt?

[pdf27]

I posted a copy of Navyson’s post in here as I think it is an extremely relevant point and should be discussed. My inclination is to say that the two parts are totally seperate, but we need a policy on this now!

[George_Eller]

@pdf27

I have no issue with banning Neo-Nazi names/symbology/etc. of which Stevey’s 14/88 is a very clear example (indeed, my avatar is a response to one such long-departed moron). Actual Nazi symbols however I have greater issues with - for starters they are a part of the very history this forum exists to discuss.

Furthermore, where exactly do you draw the line? Stalinist Russia was very nearly as bad as Nazi Germany, as were a whole bunch of “National” fascist movements.

Should the success of a movement count as well as the intent? The British Union of Fascists were singularly incompetent (having the sh*t kicked out of them in the Battle of Cable Street before being interned during WW2) yet I have no doubt that had they been successful they would have been as bad as any other fascist group. Should we ban their symbols too?

While I (sort of) agree with the concept, I think this would be a nightmare to implement.

Well, I think that we can start out with the obvious SS/Neo-Nazi names/symbology/etc. avatars and signatures and work our way from there. The rest could be done on an arbitrary basis by the super mods (as I think they would be lesser known and more rarely encountered).

I would have to agree with ardee that some of these kids may get the wrong impression seeing all the nazi avatars floating around. It may be drawing the wrong crowd.

[Nickdfresh]

I think one can draw a distinction between historical allusions to SS units and other Nazi-related retro WWII mythology and to web agendists or trolls trying to draw correlations from WWII to the contemporary Neo-Nazi and hate groups. I don’t necessarily have a problem with SS unit avatars, but names of post-war racist credos like “14/88” are pretty gauling and deserve much scrutiny. But no need to preemptively ban, and they are easily destroyed and don’t last very long anyways. Nor do many such trolls actually post here.