Sicko, the movie.

The last documental movie of Michael Moore, splited in 13 parts in Youtube with spanish subtitles:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4YVzKhP-Ww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-z6VEo-0w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRpc7gZDSOI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHTxU5yg1Io

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFaP4Y9tTMU




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VtgQO3YZus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uApA4y0rLSI




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW0npEfYLMc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PMouc_90lg




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mClfCTxLFWE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG7361bhv2M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZVdzq6cOYI

Actually I am not sure if youtube allows this content so you better watch before the delete buttons go on…:rolleyes:

No thanks, I’ll pass…I know what type of liberal propaganda this nut case puts out

Edited to add…if you would like more to read on the wind bag.
http://www.moorewatch.com/

I think, as with everyone that has an agenda Mr Moore plays to his audience. It does not necessarily mean that some of the things arent true, it just means that we have to be objective and sort the wheat from the chaff. He does have a lot of interesting things to say embedded in what is often a ludicrous piece of work.

Best to keep an open mind I say.

Look at what he has to say about the NHS and see if it bears any resemblance whatsoever to your experience of it. It certainly didn’t bear any resemblance to mine, nor that of my parents, or my great-aunt whose demise was recently hastened by MRSA acquired in a dirty NHS hospital…

Also compare what he says about Cuban hospitals with this: http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

Sorry, but any good he might have wished to do has been lost in the torrents of rhetoric, and scamming found to be in his “documentary” movies. The use of actors, and severe editing of supposed real interviews, and statements caused the academy board to disallow any of his work to submitted in the documentary section.
If he needs tricks, and half truths, and outright fabrications, he is just a huckster selling his personal agenda. No thanks.

I think it was a huge mistake of Moore to go Cuba, there was many other countries that ofers the same type of care or bets without being a communist dictatorship, wrong message there, definately wrong :roll:

However the rest of movie is quite good I believed, of course I am not the best to jugde since I never used the US health services.

Plenty of Canadians seem to think it’s worth their while crossing their southern border to use the US health services, so they can’t be that bad.

I think it is one is his worst film. The others were much better in my opinion.

Regarding “documentary” issue. You have to remember that he creates in a very special style. It is not a documentary strictly. And the issues he is rising are supposed to be provocative and partly subjective. That is part of genre.

For example the part where he plays the tape with Nixon’s voice in internal conversation and then the official speach the next day. That was really good one! Or did he fake it?

And there was nothing wrong going to Cuba. Why not? It has nothing to do with Fidel. Cuba is know for they good level medical care considering they founding.

Learn to read between the lines…

The “good level medical care” is for the party members and visiting paying customers. The ordinary people don’t get squat, and have trouble acquiring simple medicines like paracetamol that the rest of us take for granted. Have a look on the link I posted above.

Great site Stoat…But do you really wanna let the trurh stand in the way of a good story?

edited to add this quote from the site i posted.

"Let me put it like this. Name ONE THING in Sicko which expressed, in any manner, that there is a downside to socialized medicine. Name one. You can’t, because there isn’t any. This is why I say on the site that Moore has no interest whatsoever in actually seeing people get quality healthcare. He wants to see people get healthcare through socialism. That’s his primary goal, to see his grand socialist plan implemented. In order to do so he has to ignore all the negatives, and present socialized medicine as some kind of medical Disneyland, where people will come to your house and wipe your ass for you if you choose, and it’s all FREE FREE FREE!

Now, by way of comparison, Jim and I freely admit that the current US system sucks. We also make the case that socialized medicine, far from being the utopian paradise portrayed by Moore, is just as bad, if not worse. So the solution is not to abandon one shitty system (the US) for a system which is, at best, equally shitty (European and Canadian).

Moore’s trickery has made this appear like a two-sided coin: one one side are the bloodthirsty evil capitalists and their for-profit healthcare system, and on the other are the kindly, benevolent government-run systems, which never deny anything to anyone. The impression left in the viewers mind is “Wow, if I care about people then how can I support anything but socialized medicine?” Search our site, you’ll find countless horror stories about socialized medicine—people pulling their own teeth out with pliers because they couldn’t get in to see a dentist, nurses merely turning sheets over between patients to save on laundry costs, rationing schemes which send old people home to die because it would cost too much in limited resources, and so on.

Again, was ANY of this mentioned in Moore’s film? No, of course not. Because it was a two hour lie.

So, in this respect, does Moore actually give you a choice of what to believe in? Or does he lie, distort, obfuscate, bullshit, and trick you into believing what he wants you to believe? And if socialized medicine is so wonderful, why does he need to present such a distorted and inaccurate version of its reality? These are the real questions you should be asking yourself."

And many Americans wish that they had any access to healthcare at all…Which is ironic since we spend more on healthcare per capita than any nation on earth…

I have a copy of the film that I haven’t bothered watching though, so I can’t really comment.

But I think Moore’s point in going to Cuba was that terror suspects in GITMO had better access to US heathcare than did many citizens…

They do…Every person here in the U.S. has access to healthcare, even people who have come into this country illegally. We have Paramedics who make house calls and they NEVER…I repeat NEVER refused healthcare to anyone and even give rides to hospitals. I have never seen anyone not accepted to an emergency room.

Not true! People are routinely refused treatments in emergency rooms. And how many emergency rooms do you monitor? And even if they can get into the ER, many people without insurance cannot see a doctor until their situation is critical, which actually increases the costs to everybody than if they had had regular checkups…

Also, the leading cause of bankruptcies in the US are the result of catastrophic medical bills, even among people who’ve HAD medical insurance…

#1) Treatments for what? Nothing life threatening

#2) I’m sure many more than you do. I’m a fire fighter In Los Angeles and have in the past 25 years transported 1000’s to the hospital without insurance, They do get treatment…trust me. And they do not pay the bill.

#3) When you go to an ER…you are seen by a triage nurse…if it is a true emergency you will be seen by a doctor right away. The problem is people are using ER;s for there health care…that’s not the purpose of ER’s but its happening everyday. Here in L. A. hospitals close for an hour here an hour there because the beds are full of people who are there because they have the flu…are drunk…crazy…I can go on.

I know this sounds crazy but if people don’t like the free health care they are getting they can always get jobs and get better insurance. For poor family’s here in the U.S. the children up to age 18 have insurance…its called Medical / medicaid / dental cal and that for preventive treatment.
Our insurance system could be better and I would like to see it improve but government run health care is not the answer. Do you want the people running the department of motor vehicles handling your health issues too?

But yet they are still refused…

#2) I’m sure many more than you do. I’m a fire fighter In Los Angeles and have in the past 25 years transported 1000’s to the hospital without insurance, They do get treatment…trust me. And they do not pay the bill.

In one city, the ones already transported…

#3) When you go to an ER…you are seen by a triage nurse…if it is a true emergency you will be seen by a doctor right away. The problem is people are using ER;s for there health care…that’s not the purpose of ER’s but its happening everyday.

Exactly! That’s the point. This is what drives up the cost overall when preventive medicine is denied…

Here in L. A. hospitals close for an hour here an hour there because the beds are full of people who are there because they have the flu…are drunk…crazy…I can go on.

Well, there’s nothing that is going to solve that…

But mentally ill are not treated? People going to ERs for the flu, it’s because they cannot get access to a PC physician or psychological screening…

I know this sounds crazy but if people don’t like the free health care they are getting they can always get jobs and get better insurance. For poor family’s here in the U.S. the children up to age 18 have insurance…its called Medical / medicaid / dental cal and that for preventive treatment.

But that’s no solution. A lot of good jobs are dropping all benefits and routinely making people pay for their own insurance.

Our insurance system could be better and I would like to see it improve but government run health care is not the answer. Do you want the people running the department of motor vehicles handling your health issues too?

Well, apparently HMOs, pharmaceutical lobbyists that prevent cheaper drug options, and treating people based only on what they can afford are not the answers either, because in the end this all just drives up costs…And gov’t does run healthcare, it’s called Medicaid, for better or for worse.

Now its hard to compare the 2 but Ive just gotten back from Norway which is on par with the US in terms of wealth. And I can say our health care system sux.
I happen to like Mr. Moore but its not what he says it what he does. I admire him for doing something. But I dont buy all the crap he says. He is rather entertaining thou.

Regardless of his agenda…I can tell you that I think we have a major problem in the US. I have been to many countries and talked about their health care systems and understand the differences. Any American that says we dont have a major problem with our health care system doesnt know what they are talking about or is living in a world of make believe. I will also note that my Brother in law who is a MD and my sister a soon to be Doctor in Nursing agree.

Just my opinion!

Of course our health care system can be better, I don’t think anyone is saying it cant be improved upon. Our car insurance, life insurance, home owners insurance,dental insurance,pet insurance, I can go on and on can be improved upon too.
Who’s gonna pay for it? The Government? Well the government is us…and that just means more taxes. I already pay enough taxes don’t you?
Where do we draw the line? Should we have free houses? Free cars? Free food? Free college? Free life insurance? Free vacations?
Children from poor family’s in this Country have free health insurance NOW until they turn into an adult. Its hard for me to feel sorry for an adult who has been to lazy to work hard to better his life and I’m not willing to pay MORE in taxes because of that.

“Moore claims 50 million Americans lack health insurance. In the Moving Picture Institute’s nine-minute film, “Uninsured in America,” Stuart Browning deconstructs the more common “45 million uninsured” sound bite and finds that 9 million of these people earn over $75,000 annually and can buy coverage but don’t. (freemarketcure.com) Some 18 million are healthy, 18-34-year-old “young invincible’s” whose priorities exclude insurance. Another 14 million fail to enroll in Medicaid and other low-income health programs for which they are eligible. Even if these numbers somewhat overlap, Browning estimates that just 8 million Americans chronically lack coverage.”

Here check these out…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKCWbq18bNk&eurl=http://freemarketcure.com/uninsuredinamerica.php

http://freemarketcure.com/brainsurgery.php

Check out this site…has some good ideas.
http://freemarketcure.com/

I think we need too forget about the corporate and libertarian driven “everything is just fine, nothing to see here” mentality. It’s not going to go away. And gov’t either works for the people, or for corporations. Or it doesn’t work on purpose for corporations. And we’re ALREADY footing a significant tax bill for healthcare. Who benefits? Not us plebeians in the middle classes!

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0718/p17s01-wmgn.html

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/PrescriptionForChange/story?id=2563381

And I don’t agree with Hillery Clinton on a lot, and don’t particularly like her much either despite the fact that she was formerly my Senator. But her healthcare plan is far from “socialized medicine,” and when Republicans have even talked about the need for healthcare reform because Bush’s White House has effectively used tax cuts as an excuse to wash his hands and dump the problems on the states (effectively shifting your national tax bill to your state and local tax bill, and actually raising taxes on some since “blue” states like Cali’funia, Massachusetts, and New York that drive the US economy get less and pay more )…

http://www.economist.com/daily/news/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9825823&top_story=1

http://www.pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/healthinsurance.html

[i]How much does health insurance cost? The cost of health insurance has increased dramatically over the past decade, far surpassing the general rate of inflation in most years. Between 1989 and 1996, the average amount an employee had to contribute for family coverage jumped from $935 to $1,778. In 1990, American companies spent $177 billion on health benefits for workers and their dependents; that number rose to $252 billion by 1996, or more than double the rate of inflation.

Who pays for the rising costs of health insurance? Employees, consumers and taxpayers pay. Businesses pass along a portion of rising premiums to their workforces in the form of lower wage increases. Companies add the cost of the fringe benefits, including health insurance, to the price of their products and services. Government programs pay 47 percent of the health care tab in the U.S.; spending on health care makes up 20 percent of the federal budget, and most state budgets too. If you paid $5,000 in taxes last year, around $1,000 went to health care programs. (source: http://www.nchc.org)[/i]

Hillary’s cure-all
Seeking a second chance

Sep 18th 2007 | NEW YORK
From Economist.com
Hillary Clinton’s ambitious health-care plan

AP

ON MONDAY September 17th Hillary Clinton became the third of the three Democratic presidential frontrunners to offer voters a comprehensive health-care plan. It is a sign of how far America’s health-care debate has shifted that the first opponent to fire a broadside at it was Mitt Romney, a Republican who also hopes to be president. Predictably, Mr Romney criticised her proposal as a heavy-handed plan that would generate a lot of bureaucracy. But as governor of Massachusetts Mr Romney brought a similar, and widely-praised, scheme to his home state. Such has been the shift in attitudes towards covering America’s 47m uninsured.

Both her methods and her past are sure to make Mrs Clinton’s plan controversial. The concept is that Americans would have an “individual mandate”, like the insurance coverage required by car drivers. Everyone is obliged to be covered in one way or another: through an employer’s plan, privately purchased insurance, or one of two government plans, either a version of Medicare (currently for old folks) or a scheme covering federal workers. Larger employers would have to pay for insurance or pay a penalty. The concept of a “mandate” irks the small-government Republicans. And some Democrats find it too pushy, believing the state should act as the single payer for health care instead. But the idea is close to mainstream opinion about how to extend coverage to all Americans.

Mrs Clinton’s plan resembles not only Mr Romney’s in Massachusetts but also that of John Edwards, who is running for the Democratic nomination a little to her left. Mr Edwards sought to steal attention on the day she launched her plan by promising to take away the health insurance of congressmen and senators unless they passed a universal health-care bill by mid-2009. The idea is unlikely to pass, but scores easy political points at the expense of Congress, always the most unpopular branch of government. Barack Obama, the other top Democratic contender, wants to bring down the cost of insurance, but his plan lacks the individual mandate.

Mrs Clinton’s approach is unsurprising in itself—all Democrats must have ambitious coverage plans these days. But her announcement was striking because of her role in her husband’s administration, crafting a health-care plan in 1993-1994. That has passed into political folklore as disaster on such a scale that it led to a Republican takeover of Congress. Mrs Clinton’s defenders say that her plan was not so bad and that many elements have since become fashionable. Right-wing detractors, however, accused her of trying to socialise a huge swathe of the economy. Democratic Hillary-haters say she was bullying and uncompromising, threatening to “destroy” even Democratic congressmen who were not wholly behind her.

Yet just as the health-care debate has moved on, so has Mrs Clinton. Many Republicans say they would vote for the devil himself before the junior senator from New York. But her steadiness and caution, though often caricatured as cynicism, has won her admirers, including a few reluctant Republicans. She has lengthened her lead in the polls over Mr Obama for the Democratic nomination. Though his advisers claim that he is deliberately aiming not to peak too early, she remains the clear frontrunner.

Mrs Clinton has shown herself astute at picking unpopular enemies: to pay for her plan, she would seek ways to cut costs but would also raise taxes on those making over $250,000, she says. She boasts that “these proposals will not make me the insurance industry’s woman of the year.” But Mrs Clinton also stresses the positive, using the word “choice” at every opportunity (to allay Americans’ traditional fears that government health care will take away their right to select the doctors and hospitals they want). If her politicking puts her in the White House in 2009, and if she also enjoys a Democratic majority in Congress, she would finally get a second chance to do something about America’s health-care mess.

BTW Mike. I like you and respect your public service as a firefighter and indeed have relatives that do the same.

But I find it hard to be lectured by a gov’t worker who receives what I presume to be generous health benefits, largely won by pro-union politicians, on this subject…