Start of World War 2

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#1

At the risk of starting a flame war, I’d be interested to find out when people think WWII started. This is especially interesting given the numbers of other nationalities on this site, not least Finnish, Chinese and Greek.

In the UK, it’s Sept. 3 1939, following the declaration of war after Hitler did not withdraw from Poland. I suspect this goes for the rest of the Empire and Commonwealth.

I’d imagine the Poles think it began on Sept 2 1939, when the German Armed Forces crossed the border. I think also that the US uses Pearl Harbor [sic] as the reference date.

#2

If you want to get technical…the Germans staged a fake raid on themselves and claimed the Poles did it. That was very late on Aug 30. Major German opperations against Poland started in the early morning of September 1st 1939.

Although the American were messing in the affairs of the War we didnt offically come in untill Dec 8th. I believe it was on Dec 11th Germany delcared war on the US. So we were at war with Japan 3 days before Germany. If Germany hadnt declared war on us im sure we would have declared war on them. We were just hoping that they were going to do it because it looks better from our perpective.

#3

I would go with early September 1939, without trying to sound as if i’m having a go at the yanks, just because you join a war late doesn’t mean it starts then. One has to remember that it was a world war the British and French empires were all involved and their territories did cover a large part of the globe. Furthermore operations in September did take place outside Europe, the Battle of the River Plate for one.

#4

I’ll add that I don’t think there is one ‘correct’ start date for the war. Having said that, I follow Scaley’s reasoning most closely - that before the involvment of France and the UK, it was a few unrelated conflicts around the world. I’m open to discussion on this point though.

Aside: To prevent misrepresentation, I mean that the nature of the conflict only became global when UK and France became involved, not that World War is impossible without the UK / France

#5

You could even take a start date as early as the start of Japan’s little adventures in Manchuria, early 1930s.

Considering the European theatre, the earliest possible date would be the occupation of the bulk of Czechoslovakia. Very few seem to reckon on that date, however, since only DE & CZ were involved.

I would agree with 3rd Sept 1939, since it got the UK & Dominions involved.

I can’t be bothered to look it up (crap computer, can’t deal with multiple windows open very well) - when did Japan first move against British posessions in the Far East?

#6

Would it not be France/Dutch territories that the Japanese attacked first or was it HK.

#7

HK same day as Pearl Harbour

The Japanese (approx 150,000) attacked Hong Kong on the same day as Pearl Harbour. The war began on Dec 8th Hong Kong local time a few hours after Pearl Harbour (both being different sides of the international dateline)
Troops defending HK include: Royal Scots, Middlesex regiment, 22/40 Fortree Company’s Royal Engineers ,Corp Military Police Signals Royal Navy, Royal Artillery 7th HAA,Gurkhas, Punjats, Winnipeg Grenadiers and Royal Rifles of
Canada. Approx 10,000 troops

http://www.cofepow.org.uk/pages/asia_hongkong1.htm

#8

Actually, I believe I read an exact date that the German Panzers began the war by storming Poland in their famous Blitzkrieg tactic. The French and the Brits both delivered messages to the German Embassy telling them to immediately withdrawl their troops, or face retaliation. The Germans declined and then all hell broke loose.

#9

World War II or the Second World War was a global conflict that began on 7 July 1937, in Asia, and on 1 September 1939, in Europe. It lasted until 1945, and involved the majority of the world’s countries and every inhabited continent. Virtually all countries that participated in World War I were involved in World War II. It was the most extensive, expensive and bloodiest armed conflict in the history of the World.

Attributed in varying degrees to the Treaty of Versailles, the Great Depression, nationalism, and militarism, the causes of the war are a matter of debate. On which date the war began is also debated, cited as either the German invasion of Poland on 1 September 1939, the Japanese invasion of China on 7 July 1937 (the start of the Second Sino-Japanese War), or earlier yet the 1931 Japanese invasion of Manchuria. Still others argue that the two world wars are one conflict separated only by a “ceasefire”.

Fighting occurred across the Atlantic Ocean, in Western and Eastern Europe, in the Mediterranean Sea, Africa, the Middle East, in the Pacific and South East Asia, and it continued in China. In Europe, the war ended with the surrender of Germany on 8 May 1945 (V-E and Victory Days), but continued in Asia until Japan surrendered on 15 August 1945 (V-J Day).

Approximately 55-57 million people died as a result of the war, including acts of genocide such as the Holocaust and General Ishii Shiro’s Unit 731 experiments in Pingfan. As a case of total war, it involved the “home front” and bombing of civilians to a new degree. Atomic weapons, jet aircraft, and radar are only a few of many war-time inventions.

Post-war Europe was partitioned into Western and Soviet spheres of influence, the former undergoing economic reconstruction under the Marshall Plan and the latter becoming satellite states of the Soviet Union. Western Europe largely aligned as NATO, and Eastern Europe largely as the Warsaw pact, alliances which were fundamental to the ensuing Cold War. In Asia, the United States’ military occupation of Japan led to its democratization. China’s civil war continued through and after the war, resulting eventually in the establishment of the People’s Republic of China. The war sparked a wave of independence for colonies of European powers. There was a fundamental shift in power from Western Europe to the new superpowers, the United States and Soviet Union.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II
Edited by SAM to include Source.

#10

I got that recent post of mine off a Russian Website, some of things in there you would rarely hear about that in the War.

#11

I would also go with the Sep date. Technically it is the only correct one as the war then involved nations from around the globe, not just europe. The war in China, although a real war, did not involve any other nations from around the globe.

#12

In Europe you could take the start of the Spanish Civil War on June 19th, 1936 as the start, since both Germany and Italy were involved right from the beginning (e.g. Germany providing the planes Franco used to get himself and his troops, Morrocan Colonial troops, Spanish Foreign legion, who were trapped in northern Africa because the Navy didn’t join the coup as expected).

Jan

#13

That is a difficult one to answer… most countries have a very biased view on when the war started. If you ask an American, the American will say 1939 because that’s when her ally Britain and France declared war on Germany. If you ask a Chinese, then 1937 when the Marco Polo Bridge Incident took place. Or if you really want to go into the nitty gritty, ask a Manchu ethnic Chinese then she will say 1931 when the Kwangtung Army marched into northeast China.

Personally I think the war started in 1937 with the Japanese invasion of China. Events before that time did eventually become included into WW2 but those events were regional at the point. For example, Japanese occupation of Manchuria at that time was a regional conflict. Similarly, Italian invasion of Ethiopia/Abyssinia was also regional. Both of those example events did evetually grew to be part of WW2 as a whole, but when they initially took place they were separate incidence. China, I believe, was first event of WW2 as a whole because the Sino-Japanese War of 1937 directly impacted Japan’s position in the international arena, leading directly to the US-UK-Netherlands reaction to cut their oil export to Japan. Because of that effect, I think WW2 started in July 1937.

Nevertheless, like Crab_to_be originally suggested, it is a matter of heavy opinion. There is no wrong answer, it really all depends on your viewpoint and definition. I’ve heard from highly knowledgeable historians that they believed WW2 started at the signing of the Versailles peace treaty and they made some strong arguments that I could not disagree!

#14

You hit this nail right on the head, damn good job :stuck_out_tongue:

#15

In Europe you could take the start of the Spanish Civil War on June 19th, 1936 as the start, since both Germany and Italy were involved right from the beginning (e.g. Germany providing the planes Franco used to get himself and his troops, Morrocan Colonial troops, Spanish Foreign legion, who were trapped in northern Africa because the Navy didn’t join the coup as expected).

Jan[/quote]

Yup In Europe ww2 start In Spain 1936.

#16

I disagree with that. I think most Americans will say the war started when Japan attacked Pearl Habor.

#17

I disagree with that. I think most Americans will say the war started when Japan attacked Pearl Habor.[/quote]
im agree with sam

#18

Saying that WWII Started in 1936 Spain is kinda of Iggnorant, That’s like saying the Russo-Japanese war was the start of WWI just because it involved a few of the power that fought in the Great War. Just because the Spanish Civil war involved other countries doesn’t make it part of the World War because for one, it was a civil war, their was no open war on other countries, only support for the Nationalistic and Republic parts of Spain.

#19

Yes Hitler and Mussolini help Franco and germany and italy is involved.

#20

Wha? Now i think you are posting in some cases just to raise your rank clauss lol :stuck_out_tongue: