Swiss say: "No more minarets!"

Popular vote: Switzerland forbids the building of minarets

From now on no minarets will be build in Switzerland anymore. The Swiss television reports that in a public vote 57.5% of the Swiss population accorded with a petition of the national-conservatives.
This result was a surprise to as well the parties and the government. The voter participation was unexpectedly high (54%). In Switzerland about 400,000 muslims are living permanently. There are already 4 minarets existing, building applications for two more are on hand.
Spokespersons of several parties called the vote a most political one. Furthermore it was about the fear of militant Islam.
The initiators of the vote, the SVP (Schweizerische Volkspartei = Swiss People’s Party), feel validated both by the result and the high voter participation. They feel to have correctly assessed worries of the Swiss population.

Minarets in switzerland ?..god damn the world is twisted upside down. :!:

Thank god it was stopped. There are still some people with balls.

Disagree. This is frankly little more than “look at those evil foreigners” bigotry. Any other faith is allowed to build what they like, and the Minarets were purely architectural features on the 4 mosques built to date - they are not used for the call to prayer.

they are not used for the call to prayer

Maybe the mussies prayer caller ( I know the arab word for it but I refuse to write it) are uncorfotable with the idea being exposed in the high, targeted by unhappy sorrounding christian population, remember my dear that unliked the compulsory forced undesarmed, pub loving citizens of England, Scotland and Wales the swiss population has many SIG 550/551 assault rifles at home, a right not only allowed but enforced by law. :mrgreen:

What a great small country.

I heard on the radio today that [Christian] school children here in the Phoenix area are not allowed to bring their Bibles to class with them–much less openly display them on their desks. Yet, Muslim children (and there are still relatively few of them) are dismissed from class five times daily for their ritual prayers to Mecca.

They’re still permitted to build mosques, but without minarets.

That’s no different to the situation in Qatar with a Christian church and considerably better than in Saudi Arabia (a country heavily defended by ostensibly Christian nations, to no good purpose for those nationa apart from oil).

Muslims are in no position to complain when some Islamic countries are considerably more restrictive towards Christians and their churches.

Interfaith dialogue has become an important exercise in finding the right words to overcome both extreme violence and ordinary misunderstanding. True progress, however, is best measured in deeds. The inauguration last week of Qatar’s first Christian church — a small Catholic chapel bearing neither bells nor visible crosses — has been hailed as a welcome step forward in relations between Catholicism and Islam. But an even more dramatic development is under discussion just across the border: The Vatican has confirmed that it is negotiating for permission to build the first church in Saudi Arabia.

Presiding over the cradle of Islam and home to its holiest sites, the Saudi monarchy has long banned the open worship of other faiths, even as the number of Catholics resident in Saudi Arabia has risen to 800,000 thanks to an influx of immigrant workers from places like the Philippines and India. Mosques are the only houses of prayer in a country where the strict Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam dominates. But Archbishop Paul-Mounged El-Hachem, the papal envoy to the smaller countries on the Arabian peninsula, such as Kuwait and Qatar, has confirmed that talks are under way to establish formal diplomatic relations between the Vatican and Saudi Arabia, and to eventually allow for Catholic churches to be built there. Pope Benedict XVI is believed to have personally appealed to King Abdullah on the topic during the Saudi monarch’s first ever visit to the Vatican last November.

Top Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that a Catholic parish in this key Islamic country would be “a historic achievement” in the push to expand religious freedom and foster a positive interfaith rapport. Under Benedict, the Catholic hierarchy has stepped up calls from its Muslim counterparts for “reciprocity,” demanding that the same religious freedom enjoyed by Muslims in the West should be granted to Christian minorities in the Islamic world. They note that Europe’s biggest mosque, built with Saudi funds, was opened in 1995 in Rome, just across the river from the Vatican.

Pope Benedict passionately condemned last week’s death of Chaldean Catholic Archbishop of Mosul, Paulos Faraj Rahho, who was kidnapped on Feb. 29 in the northern Iraqi city. As many as 350,000 of the 800,000 Christians in Iraq before the war have since fled the country, while smaller but similar exoduses have occurred in the Palestinian territories, Lebanon and other parts of the Arab world.

While Christians in those areas trace their roots to the earliest centuries of the faith, the Catholics in Saudi Arabia are mostly migrant workers. And the restrictions on any outward manifestation of their religious beliefs have been particularly severe. The celebration of non-Muslim holidays is forbidden, as is the wearing of crucifixes and other religious symbols.
My bold
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1723715,00.html

Try building a Catholic cathedral in Mecca and see how much religious tolerance is shown by the Saudis who funded the biggest mosque in Europe opposite the Vatican.

I don’t much care about religions as they’re all a waste of space and tax exemptions and equal opportunity exemptions, but if one religion demands tolerance and freedoms for itself then commonsense fairness dictates that it has to show the same to other religions.

Which is rather unlikely because they all think they’re the one true faith and the only path to heaven. It’s just that one of them is currently rather more aggressive in the attitude of some its members than most of the rest, although most of the rest were just as aggressive at times in their pasts.

I think its just about how mosques can’t be taller (part of the 'They Have Bigger Dicks, Bomb Them" theory of George Carlin) than cathedrals.

Err… no. Actually, they’re just being reasonably civil and not making loud noises when their neighbours may be asleep.

I have some vague (and possibly quite inaccurate) recollection that there was some rule or principle in ?medieval? Europe that no building could be higher than a (necessarily Christian) church.

Who’s being reasonably civil?

The English, Scots, Welsh or Swiss?

Civility and not making loud noises when their neighbours may be asleep isn’t something normally associated with all of them. :smiley:

There are actually many Muslims I like and respect. Omar Shariff, for instance. I think he converted to Islam before he married his first wife. The product of French/Egyptian parents, he was probably non-practicising anything before he converted. Then, there’s the king and queen of Jordan. They certainly don’t seem all that radical. There’s also a ‘conservative’ Muslim group here in the Valley of the Sun (Phoenix, Arizona) that believe the U.S. Constitution tops everything, including Sharia, and condemn radical Islam.

When I was pretty much a regular in Bible study, I always looked forward to a young ex-Muslim showing up. Bob Khan showed great faith and conviction when he converted to Christ–he was totally disowned by his parents and he told me once that he knew that if he ever went back to Saudi Arabia, he faced public beheading.

Is not a problem about noises, ia about uses, culture and religion. The people simply doesnt like muslim and their invasive manners. Is a quite simple and logic reactio to privilege your own culture above and uses above others medieval, obscure ones.

would anybody start to make a lot of churches in Ryad or Indonesia with big bells ?

Probably dont.

As residents of countries which our forefathers took from the indigenous peoples, you and I aren’t in the best position to complain about ‘invasive manners’ of Muslims.

While I don’t much like some of the migrant groups coming here because they’re changing our culture in ways I don’t like, that reaction to them always reminds me that that is probably how the Aborigines must have felt about my ancestors taking over their land.

As for medieval cultures, Christianity pre-dated Islam by about six centuries so doesn’t that make it even less entitled to dominate the world than Islam?

Lousy comparison, beside my “forefathers” were not spanish conqueror but very peaceful people from northern Italy who came to work the land in the late 1800s.

Since the Muslims in question are peaceful migrants who came at the invitation of the indigenous Swiss inhabitants (mostly as refugees from the Balkans), I’d have to say they have more right to be there than you do.

Peaceful, ha, ha, ha,very,very funny. They are friends of the same people who killed some nuns because theye were angry for a cartoon.

They are friends of those who came out with “Behead those who insult Islam” placards in London.

And by the way, your opinion of my rights …I care more about the price of the pineapple in the Kuala lampur street market than anything you can say about my rigths and the rights of the grandfathers.

My granfather were better than you you and better than any muslim.

Better than Kemal Ataturk and Saladin?

Your grandfather must have been a very impressive man.

I assume that his name lives on in world history with Muslims such as Ataturk and Saladin.

merry christmas…!

It’s about more than just noise, just religion or just culture.
It’s even close to urban designing and historic form language of a region.
I find it hard to believe that dark brown opposers to the arrival of modern concrete boxes say their prayers to minnarets… :rolleyes:

The truth is, my dear friends, that Switzerland is the only country (I know) where a national vote round determines policy. And therefor, Switzerland is the only country where such a discussion leads to such a result. Make no mistake: in other countries the results would give higher percentages for the opposers… yet over there, policy is made by politicians alone and not the people.

Think of the lissabon treaty in the EU. Even there, public vote was bypassed in favor of parliamentary vote. Simply out of fear the people would have voted the treaty away.
Yes, democracy can make hard choices. If one cannot live with it, just get away with democracy. Like they do in many many so called democratic western countries.

One can make also another conclusion: there is no monopoly or need for autocratic or fascist leadership to make tough decisions.

Yes, I love Switzerland. I spend some holidays there every year.

I have no problem with immigration or an evolving culture, per see. The British mainland is so situated that economic and political migrationion has occurred for more than a millenia, not to mention invasions. Most of those who bring their culture with them are assimilated into British society, usually by the second generation (It seems to me, for example, that as much as PK is proud of his Italian roots, he is proud to be an Argentinian). During that assimillation process, those same immigrants have added a little of their own culture to ours. Furthermore, during the days of Empire, returning soldiers brought pieces of imperial culture with them.

The arguments over minarets are small potatoes. The Brighton Pavilion as many minarets and is a most pleasing building. As a matter of fact, it was used as a hospital for Indian soldiers (including muslims, of course) during WW1. A fabulous building - almost as good as Blackpool Tower.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://home.clara.net/heureka/sussex/brighton-pavilion02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://home.clara.net/heureka/sussex/royal-pavilion.htm&usg=__43ScIv1B3ARs2xryS-_R-1IIX74=&h=592&w=881&sz=175&hl=en&start=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=dUCdvDzEHTXIDM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=146&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBrighton%2Bpavilion%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SNYS_enGB342GB348%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/00/13/001366_3578f7e4.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1366&usg=__ApqTzUVGVddNmxe4SUJrCE5AYjc=&h=480&w=640&sz=44&hl=en&start=14&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=snipQ_ZF2yM3XM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3DBrighton%2Bpavilion%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4SNYS_enGB342GB348%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1

A more serious problem is the violence which some immigrants are introducing to our streets and neighbourhoods. It’s not a massive problem, but it is a problem.

Worse than the violence, in my opinion, is the strain on the infrastructure - e.g. schools, hospitals, housing and water supply etc. We are a smallish and already overpopulated island, and without some serious forward planning, we’re just storing up problems for the future.

As Churchill ( I think?) said: ‘Democracy isn’t perfect, but it’s the best we have!’

We only have to look at the way we disagree on so many issues on this site to understand that democracy cannot please all of the people any of the time.

History has proven, even in the most recent of times, that those people who most strongly resist change are those that eventually fall.

Merry Christtmas everybody!