The basic rifle and other guns use by Americans

Site Issues 2007 Archive Room
#1

At the start of the war, the Springfield bolt action 1903 Model A3 was the standard issue rifle. It was an improved version of the one used in WWI. It was produced until early in 1944 even though the newer Semi-Automatic M-1 Garand was by that time the first line issue infantry weapon. In addition, the WWI vintage Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) was issued as the squad automatic weapon. The Army issued one per 12 man squad. The Marines issued two.
The M-1 Carbine Semi-Automatic was issued to officers and other weapons crews as a personal sidearm a step above the 1911 Model Colt Semi-Automatic pistol. This carbine was made fully automatic later in the war and was redesignated the M-2. It was our first fully automatic assault weapon and was used by the airborne. It fired a .30 cal cartidge but was underpowered, falling in the class of a pistol cartridge. The M-1 and M-2 Thompsons were favored as a squad submachine gun but due to manufacture techniques there were never enough to go around to meet demand. The M-1 and M-2 Greasegun submachine gun was designed to fill theis gap and was issued to tank crews and infantry squads. The quality of this weapon was poor, but was cheap and easy to make. The 1903 Springfield (also manufactured by Remington and Smith Corona, yeah the typewriter people) saw service as a sniper rifle from WWII to Viet Nam. Until recently you could by one through the NRA Civilian Marksmanship program for $125 to $400 dollars with range qualification. They have all been sold and now go for as much as $1200.

You might notice the problems having weapons firing 3 different cartridges might have caused for logistics. The 1906 .30 caliber or .30-06 rifle cartridge for the M-1 Garand and 1919 Light Machine gun, the .30 carbine cartridge for the Carbine, and the .45 cal ACP for the 1911 Colt, Thompson and Grease gun.

Squads were also equiped with the 1919 .30 cal Browning Light machinegun. These were squad support weapons usually found in the Weapons Platoon. Theis platoon also included the M-2 Browning .50 caliber heavy machine gun. This was not frequently found in the line squad, but was used by the weapons platoon. The 1919 .30 cal medium machine gun was a water cooled version of the 1919 light machinegun with a water jacket and heavy tripod.

It is interesting to note that the Wehrmacht had an MG-34 or MG-42 as the squad weapon and the squad members simply provided security support and ammo for the gun. Our forces employed the automatic weapon in the opposite fashion. But now, our troops are employing tactics more in line with the WWII german tactics. We now have two M249s (the Minimi)per squad and they are the center for the two fire teams that make up the squad. The Marines have three I think, with 3, 3 man fire teams. High volume fire power is a wonderful thing…

#2

a: this is a cut and paste from here: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Military-History-669/WWII-Wepon.htm
b: lots of it is wrong

#3

Yea because i asked the question my name is Morgan

#4

Yea because I asked this guy on Allexperts.com and my full name is MorganT. Dorr

#5

Given how much of the piece is plain wrong, “this guide” is hardly an expert. do you want me to pick it apart?

#6

Here are the major errors, the nitpicky errors are too many:

  1. M1903A3 was introduced in 1942 (war started end 1941) ; M1 Garand was the standard rifle at the start of the war (exception: US Marines)
    2: M2 carbine is a distinct model, M1’s were never up-rated and redesignated. It is also more of a submachine gun than an assault rifle, due to the low powered ammunition.
  2. the Thompson submachine guns are: M1928, M1928 A1, M1 and M1A1. the M2 submachine gun is the Hyde-Inland, never produced in quantity.
  3. the “grease gun” is the M3 or M3A1 submachine gun.
  4. Thomson production always met demand, but was damned expensive.
  5. there is confusion as to squad weapons and weapon platoon weapons. If I remember correctly, M1917 & M1919 machine guns were only at platoon or company level, not squad.
  6. I don’t think the M2 Browning was used as a tripod mounted infantry weapon during World War II.
  7. the German philosophy, while more or less accurately described at the top of the last paragraph, is very different to the current US/British philosophy which has removed GPMG-level firepower from the squad/section level

There’s more problems, but that will do for now.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you should not cut and paste something written by an Internet savant. Except for the spelling, this guy could certainly have been IRONMAN…

#7

Further: that piece was written by this chap on 2006-10-30 : http://www.allexperts.com/ep/669-25883/Military-History/Keith-H-Patton.htm

Expert Profile: Keith H. Patton

Expertise: I can answer questions pertaining to weapons and tactics, personalities, battles, and strategies in european and U.S. history.

Experience in the area
I was a history major, and had done extensive research in the subject area. I have designed and tested numerous computer games for various
historical periods

Education/Credentials
B.A History M.S. Science
I have had the opportunity to live abroad and walk numerous battlefields both in the United States, Europe, and the Pacific.

.

Interesting…

#8

The OP recites basic knowledge and draws some rather empty conclusions.

For example

So what was the alternative? .30 pistols and SMG’s firing rifle rounds? or .45 rifles firing pistol / SMG rounds?

Or maybe the US Army should have withdrawn all the older rifles when it issued the new models, even if there weren’t enough to go around?

It’s an unavoidable fact that weapons designed for different purposes often have different calibres, and even in the same calibre different sized cartridges and different weighted projectiles.

As long as the troops get the ammo, it doesn’t matter what variations an army uses.

Even having exactly the same round in, say, the basic infantry weapon and GPMG doesn’t solve the problem, as you would have found out in Vietnam if you wanted to use the 7.62mm SLR rounds in the M60 GPMG. There’s the slight problem of (a) having the links and (b) having the time and skill to fill and connect them in a hurry. They’re much easier to use in factory fresh belts. That’s why they were issued in belts to begin with.

#9

It gets even worse: consider what the .30M2 cartridge (.30-06 had been phased out by this time) had to be supplied as:

Springfield strippers (M1903)
Garand clips ( M1 rifle)
canvas belt ( M1917/M1919A4)
Link (M1919A6)
boxed (I assume)

Plus then the variations of ball, AP, API, tracer,1 in five etc.

#10

Makes you wonder how America ever won a battle, let alone a war, doesn’t it. :smiley:

#11

The best logistics train in the world at that time won it!

You think they had problems with (broadly) three cartridges? This is what the Brits had to supply:

.303" Mk.VII & Mk.VIII (Rifle, Bren, Vickers)
.380" revolver ( Enfield No.2)
.455 Webley and Scott ( Webley Mark VI)
9mmPara ( STEN)
.45ACP ( Thompson M1928)
7.92 Mauser (BESA)
.30M2 (M1919, used on some AFVs)

#12

Hi, I wanted to offer a tip to those who might want to get hold of an '03-A3, if you have a firearms dealer around that sells to law enforcement, or a supplier to law enforcment, they sometimes get '03’s on trade from police dept’s, (from the color guards etc.) contact this type of supplier, and you might find some nice examples. Even if you have to have it shipped from out of state, any local dealer will accept it for you. (for a small fee,) - Raspenau -

#13

The CMP still has Remington-made M1903A3 rifles for sale at $500.

http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1903.htm

JT

#14

and this hereth end the lession on copy and pasting internet rubbish.

#15

Some US weapons of WW2

Rifles:M1 Garand,M1 Carbine,M1A1 Carbine
Snipers:Springfield 1903
Machine guns:30 caliber,50 caliber
Sub machinegun:Thompson,M3Grease gun
Pistol:M-1911 45.

#16

Private Malarky, the americans had also snipered the M-1 Garand along with the 30-06 Springfield. and Sergeant Winters is corrent with the amount of useless shit that people type up and attempt to make it as true information concerning military uses of not only the americans, but as other countries military units and weopons

#17

And?

Jan

#18

For the thompson it uses a 45 acp right and the greece uses what,9mm

#19

The M3A1 also uses 45 acp

#20

o really,never knew that