This might be called the “execution of wounded member of crew”.
By those panzer-bastards.
The simular beahaviour provoked the war crimes toward the POWs during the war.
The pictures stimulate nothings,… you’re either kill or be killed,…
you can’t be too sure unless hands are up or bodies are on the ground…
the same thing of one movie i saw in the youtube on one panther being shot dozens of times,. despite fires and smokes came out from its engine.
The germans seemed checking on the armor,. and somehow found something hostiles towards him,. and decided to threw the grenade first and check again later,…
Chevan: Do yourself and us all the favour to think before you write!
The Russians quickly got famous for fighting on, no matter how bloodily wounded, for one thing.
Another is that you wouldn´t have written
“execution of wounded member of crew”.
had it been a German AFV and Soviet soldiers!
(place them in hilly terrain and the KV-2 certainly won´t win as the turret wasn´t too happy to move unless the KV was close to horizontal)
You plese don’t direct me what to write and how to think… :twisted:
The Russians quickly got famous for fighting on, no matter how bloodily wounded, for one thing.
Even though…this is not reason to finish the all the wounded enemy solders.
The Germans got famouse in executing all of wounded russian soldiers, independently of were they still able to resist or not.
Another is that you wouldn´t have written had it been a German AFV and Soviet soldiers!
SO find me please just a single shoot where the russians blowed up the German tank with wounded silent crew, or even shoot where they executed the wounded GErmans POWs?
You plese don’t direct me what to write and how to think…
I do not want to tell you what to write or think, just to think before you write.
SO find me please just a single shoot where the russians blowed up the German tank with wounded silent crew, or even shoot where they executed the wounded GErmans POWs?
So tell me again: how many German Stalingrad POW´s survived?
really, why? 
It seem you try to think , but if the result the same - why to waste a time ?
So tell me again: how many German Stalingrad POW´s survived?
Aha, so as i do understand , you have no any photos of execution of GErmans POWs by Soviets.
Well, so why do yo try to change the concept?
What to hell have the “survived” to the “execution”?
You as the man who PRs themself as the thinking…have to understand that about 50 mln have not survived the ww2 at all, nevertheless hardly even 10% of them have been executed.
Chevan i like to call a dog a dog so i’ll be frank here, while aware of historical facts you’re time and time again twisting them to fit your nationalist version of history that will not hurt your pride, you’re continously lying.
Germans did not execute all russian POW’s in fact POW executions were relatively rare, how do you think Germans aquired milions of POW’s if they were “famous for executing them.”
While i will not be arsed to look for the tank case : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes
Educate yourself, i can provide dozens of links to russian atrocities against german POW’s, lets make it clear, Red Army was inhuman in its treatment of both civilians and soldiers, rapes, murders and barbaric uncivilzed behaviour was common against all people whether those “liberated” or Germans.
From the point of view of anyone non-russian there was nothing noble about the Red Army or the russian nation of the war period, the barbarism of russians is well documented and the only thing that they were better than Germans was that usually they didnt plan wholesale extinction just local genocides and random acts of barbarism.
Well to be fair, the Germans did kill off most of the Soviet prisoners they captured in their POW camps. I think the numbers quite staggering. All a question of timing…
The Heer and SS also had a habit of turning Russian civilians out of their homes in occupied areas, after stealing they’re cold weather clothing of course.
While i will not be arsed to look for the tank case : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes
Educate yourself, i can provide dozens of links to russian atrocities against german POW’s, lets make it clear, Red Army was inhuman in its treatment of both civilians and soldiers, rapes, murders and barbaric uncivilzed behaviour was common against all people whether those “liberated” or Germans.
After some of the atrocities by the Germans against Soviet civilians, I wouldn’t blame them one bit…I suggest you look into the partisan attack reprisals in which whole villages were decimated. And I think a German soldier had a statistically higher chance of surviving a Soviet POW camp as Russian did a German one…
Perhaps you should take some of your own advice. I suggest Anthony Beevor’s account of Stalingrad…
From the point of view of anyone non-russian there was nothing noble about the Red Army or the russian nation of the war period, the barbarism of russians is well documented and the only thing that they were better than Germans was that usually they didnt plan wholesale extinction just local genocides and random acts of barbarism.
Other than they defeated the German Army for the first time at Stalingrad and destroyed something like 80% of the ground forces by War’s end…
It was a brutal, utterly remorseless war on both sides…
To be honest i’d probably do the same as a Russian in these times but i will firmly oppose Chevans portrayal of the Red Army as even nearing humane, some atrocities can be justified by german atrocities but not the amount or extent of what the Red Army did, there’s no redemption for the kids of Soso.
And what about polish civilians ? Ukrainian civilians ? Lithuanians and people of Baltic Republics.
And then continued to rape and murder thousands of civilians in the countries previously occupied by the Germans ? Russians won because they had no choice but they were brutal savages ( mostly not all ) while at it.
When they came to Vilinus apart from murdering tens of thousands of civilians they’ve encountered a problem still remembered around here, far eastern russian soldiers had a problem with using a privy, they didnt know how to flush.
As a result after the passing of the frontline units Vilinus was full of raped women, murdered civilians and clogged toilets.
Unless you are living in Eastern Europe were Russia is universally distrusted for its crimes you cant really comprehend what happened, just one advice, never call Russians noble in Eastern Europe, Belarus and Russia are ok, everywhere else you might get kicked out of the restaurant or something.
I certainly know the Red Army was capable of brutality. Probably the political paramilitaries of the NKVD were that nastiest vermin. But I think the brutality of the conflict can not be put to one side, especially since it was the Wehrmacht that invaded the USSR, not the Red Army into Germany…
And what about polish civilians ? Ukrainian civilians ? Lithuanians and people of Baltic Republics.
Of course various units, probably primarily the NKVD, committed brutal programs against political enemies. This question was actually well spoken of by a Canadian-Ukrainian history professor who harshly spoke of Stalin’s viciousness and asked the controversial question: why should only those fighting on the fascist side be considered war criminals?
Thread here: http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3958
But I also recognize that if I were a Russian fighting in the Red Army with little control over my destiny once the war ended, I doubt I’d be too forgiving of “Fritz.”
And then continued to rape and murder thousands of civilians in the countries previously occupied by the Germans ? Russians won because they had no choice but they were brutal savages ( mostly not all ) while at it.
There were ravages, probably somewhat a reflection of the powerless given a little power, and what Anthony Beevor called, “the dark side of male sexuality.”
I’ve also fought with Chevan over this…
When they came to Vilinus apart from murdering tens of thousands of civilians they’ve encountered a problem still remembered around here, far eastern russian soldiers had a problem with using a privy, they didnt know how to flush.
But can you blame them for not knowing how to flush a toilet?
Yes there were murders, but there were also genuine efforts to reassert good order and discipline after excesses became embarrassingly public…
As a result after the passing of the frontline units Vilinus was full of raped women, murdered civilians and clogged toilets.
Unless you are living in Eastern Europe were Russia is universally distrusted for its crimes you cant really comprehend what happened, just one advice, never call Russians noble in Eastern Europe, Belarus and Russia are ok, everywhere else you might get kicked out of the restaurant or something.
I don’t call nationalities “noble,” I call individuals noble or ignoble on a case by case basis. Indeed, the problems that plagued the Red Army were no different, except in the scale, than rapes and rampaging that I’ve read about carried out by French-Northern African colonial forces in Italy (Berbers) and even by ill-trained US Army troops in North Africa during the bad days of early Torch…
Yet another thread de-railed by reactions to a Chevan post…
This is something I could writen somewhere else as it has little to do with that post and certainly nothing to do with KV-2´s.
Can we learn to ignore Chevan´s utterings or should we suggest to him to create a nationalchauvinistic thread in which anybody who feel like can discuss his nationalChevanistic views?
Sorry if anybody feel hurt by this, or if I´ve somehow broken a code conduct of the forum, but I´m really fed up (as I guess everyone else is) with Chevan´s notion of all Russian soldiers and Mother Russia herself having wings on their backs and a halo permanently hovering over their heads!
I’m starting and merging a new thread here from responses in the KV-2 thread which is about a tank…
The above exchanges pertain to this picture, purportedly of Ostheer soldiers summarily executing Red Army wounded in their knocked out KV-2 tank:
Chevanistic! har har!!!
If you want a nice reply to Chevanism, please refer to post on favourite Russian generals!
Oh…funny is it not, that we place the clogging of toilets in the same catagory of wrongdoing as rape and murder?
Ost-Front was TOTAL WAR right from the beginning. It was a fight to the finish, with both sides behaving as if the military standards that apply to troops everywhere else simply did not compute in a case like this. It made Napolean’s Russian Campaign look quaint and orderly by comparison. There were 60,000 Germans in Napolean’s Grande Armee, and one of the deciding factors for going to war was the creation of the State of POLAND. The parallels are there for all to see…
With all due respect, maybe one should make such remarks about another senior member after reaching post count of 500 or so. Do not you think?
Sorry if anybody feel hurt by this
None taken…
One thing, the picture certainly doesn’t show a KV2, a KV1 yes.
My mistake…
With all due respect, maybe one should make such remarks about another senior member after reaching post count of 500 or so. Do not you think?
Hope I with this is done making totally out of subject posts.
I´ve read a lot threads from before I became a member, and know well enough what kind of posts a certain person continues to deliver. So with all due respect: no, I don´t think so.
I did not intend to suggest a general no response to Chevan´s posts or anything like that, just to keep it to ourselves if we know it´ll go off subject. But I´m serious about the Russian-Halo-Chevan-thread proposal.
And while I´m at it: No Chevan, I do not have any picture of anybody being executioned.
I think the best way to combat Chevanism is to hit back with facts and figures. We could start with Chevan giving us overall and month by month Russian production figures, compare them to the Lend Lease materials sent to them, and astound him with the premise that without it, Russia could not have survived…
And, without a high command willing and able to throw lives away at a rate that made the Waffen SS look like holiday excursionists. I am scathing in my criticism of the standard of Russian generalship. I maintain these fellows were BUTCHERS, and would be out of a job in any other country…
Another point to make is the lack of basic consumer goods and foodstuffs that the Soviets simply did not produce, pouring everything into war production, and frequently letting entire regions starve. This is something that not even Germany could bring itself to do, showing just what a bankrupt and brutal government the Soviets were…
I poet said:“Every one feels like a great strategist watching fight from far away…”