What do you think of this true tale of what happened after the Third Riech fell?
Beevor is an acclaimed historian, he doesn’t usually make up stories.
That said, there were some honourable men amongst the Red Army, Rokossovsky springs to mind.
The quote from Natalya Gesse is telling though, and not one easy to ignore.
I am just surprised that the story appeared in the Grauniad, it doesn’t gel with their normal editorials.
if you get a chance. you should watch wwii in colour episode 3. they get a little into what the russians did when they conquered berlin. along with that, they read a german womans diary who described being raped, and a russian who fought in stalingrad who believed it was justified and would teach them a lesson, and people in the future who want to take over the world.
from wwii in colour achives, they said there were over 100,000 cases of rape reported, and 6,000 men and woman commited suicide.
well, as horrible as it may sound, the russians in my opinion, were returning the favor. although they were civilians, they were people who were part of a country who was trying to kill and take over russia. despite the savagry and uncivilized acts that the russians did to the german people. i think in some way, it was justified for what they had endured on the eastern front.
The Russians were just as bad as the Germans, just the Germans had more of organised selection of groups. The Russians murdered thousands of poles in the Katyń massacre and many others in “War Crimes” and “Purges”. The death toll under Starlin ranges greatly from 10-50 million.
i dont know if you can say russians were just as bad.
the russians targeted people who were against them in some way.
the germans executed innocent people in really horrible ways, not to mention public executions of russians when they first invaded.
but killing is killing, but the russians motiv was far different than the germans, and somewhat justified.
The Russians were also famous for executing innocent people by quota. Ever heard of the “Red Terror”?
Yep, the Russians went wild, what did anyone expect them to do to Germany?
If you read Max Hastings Armaggedon there is a telling passage in it where a Russian is describing East prussia with awe at how they lived and cannot believe that the Germans could want to attack peasant Russia!
While not condoning for a minute what the Russians did, I can fully understand their rage and feelings towards Germans and Germany at that time.
Agreed firefly. The conditions of fighting on the Eastern Front would not have endeared the Russians to their foe one bit.
It is interesting to note that durin gthe middle ages, and even up to about the 1850’s where sieges were more common than today, it was seen as the attackers priveledge to rape, loot and generally raise havoc in a city that they had had to break in to.
Cities that surrendered would be given mercy and just simply garrisoned. This tactic was also used by the British at places like Badajoz during the Peninsular campagne. After fighting through minded breaches, especially the “forlorn hope”, then it is only natural that the blood would be up and the red mist down.
When you look at what the Germans did to the Russians at the beginning this is what set the scene for the whole front. It also played an important part in the SS’s will to fight to the death. They were marked men,a nd they knew it, as they had committed most of the atrocities on the front. If captured alive they knew what retribution they could expect.
The fact that this retribution was instead turned on to the civialians in the heat of battle and in it’s immediate aftermath is not surprising. AAlthough I believe taht the Russian hierachy soon restored order to their troops when they could.
Very good article but I’ve read of many worse atrocities committed by Soviet soldiers on German woman
one particularly brutal story I recall reading talked about how some Soviet solders stripped a German girl, raped her, then tied each of her limbs to a different truck and drove apart
No, the Nazi’s killed Jews because Hitler saw them as the enemy of the Aryan race. Same Same for mental people, gay people and gypsy, they were the enemy because they threatened the gene-pool. So they may have been innocent to us but Hitler didn’t see them that way so he was’t in his eyes killing inoccent people.
The russian wasn’t only a threath for your project. they was the principal
menace for total victory of the german thoght. Atrocities?, good, one side
and the other. Higher or lower in numbers are the same. :arrow:
What i think?,german girls are beautiful,blondes and of blue eyes 
Does seem pretty accurate and as has already been mentioned Anthony Beevor is a serious historian.
One thing that should also be mentioned here (and not as justification - both are rather sick and evil) is that the German soliders in Russia behaved rather similarly.
To requote Bomber Harris “They have sown the wind and now they will reap the whirlwind.”
It was the Nazi’s racial ideas (tacitly supported by most Germans - while they were winning) that lead to the atrocities that were commited by SS and Wehrmacht troops and consequently it was the Nazi’s racial ideas that doomed them to the literal orgy of vengence that was visited on them by the Soviets.
I am also fairly sure that Soviet officers, particularly “political” officers, did as much as they possibly could to stir up these feelings in their troops.
No, the Nazi’s killed Jews because Hitler saw them as the enemy of the Aryan race. [/quote]
but of course this is a flase claim. the jewish people of germany fought in wwii along the sides of all people. can you honestly think someone is that dumb to think that? i strongly believe eh did this as scare tactics to hold political power and win the hearts of germans by having them believe he is doing something nobel.
The Germans are bad but when it comes to attrocities Stalin is very high on the list. The holodomar where he starved 7+ million people to death. As far as im concerned the allies where co-operating with a genocidal maniac. Unffortunatly there was no Nuremburg for the allies and there never will be.
A short adding: I watched today the 3rd part (Triumph and Despair) of “WWII in color” series (made by History Channel, btw). They said there were over 100,000 cases of rape reported in Berlin.
“To the victor go the spoils of war”, or something like that was once said.
For a minute place yourself in a young Russian soldiers shoes in 1945 at the end of the war in Berlin. You have just come out of hell where 13 million of your fellow soldiers were killed, you saw German attrocity after attrocity along the way resulting in millions more being murdered. Every day you woke up for the last 3 or so years on the front you figured would ‘be your last day’. Lets not forget you havent had a decent meal or seen your family for years, you dont even know if they are still alive, chances are they are dead.
NOW, the war is over, so what now?? Go back home to Russia where my dictator leader mite kill me like he did the other 20 million during the purge?? Ya home sounds like a nice place, my family is dead, i dont have anything to return to but a life of work with no payoff. Hmmmm well lets see here, maybe getting drunk and finding some women, willing or not, would fit the bill right now. Can you blame them. I cant say i would do anything different under those circumstances, what did they have to lose.
Hey,maybe it was a necesity,i know that raping is inhuman and a brutality,but maybe the guys after months of fighting with ice on the pants,bored,without having any sexual relation gave them a giant necesity to do “It”,just put yourself in their places,you have a year or more of not having a woman,i would feel desesperated.
greetings
Rape is never a necessity !
It is a brutal act against the defenceless.
It is a power crime rather than a sexual one.
Rape shows a lack of discipline at all levels.
Granted there will be some individual psychopaths that slip through the net, but rape on a scale such as this is an indictment of the soldiers, their immediate commanders and the higher staff and leaders of the regimes.
None involved can claim any reason that could make them immune from prosecution.
It is against the teachings of all the religions which the major participants may have claimed as their own.
The Communists still treated it as a crime despite their lack of religious conviction.
Some may seek to mitigate these actions because of atrocities previously witnessed, but two wrongs do not make a right.
Anyone claiming that there was a good reason for the rapes show that their own morals are deeply suspect.