1000

Panzerknacker. I wouldn’t write it if it didn’t apply to me equally as I apply it to others. You should know me well enough (well as can be expected through the medium of the internet) to know I am pretty fair on such matters.

Where did I post idiocy? I pointed out that in my believe the equipment shown did not exist, and was photoshoped. Hardly idiocy, but my opinion. If it now shown to be wrong, then so be it, it is wrong. As I say, I have a number of years experience working with Guns and Tanks in Germany, and have never seen this equipment. Even now it looks wrong.

As mentioned, why would Germans require this kit to fire on ranges that Americans and British (even Dutch) also fire on? An above source claims Mappen is 2Km away from habitation, yet there are other ranges in Germany just as close, where this equipment isn’t used. And like I say, the required safety equipment for firing in Germany is not fitted. This is required on British Guns firing in Germany (not when they are in Canada, UK or elsewhere) also. Introduced after a German Gun lobbed a Blue shot (thankfully) in to a Supermarket Car park in the late '80s.

It is hardly idiocy on my behalf. I also don’t tend to put alot of faith in to forums, after all if you did, you could now be believing me rather than George. George, that is why I didn’t put too much credit in the way of the strategy pages.

Panzerknacker, don’t be such a prat.

If you look back through my posts you will find other posts of mine where I have apologised where wrong. So in keeping with my general attitude of if I am wrong I admit it, I will apolgise to George, as this indeed appears to be an actual equipment.

However, I am still puzzled as to why I have never seen one, nor ever used one. And will be looking in to it further.

As for accusing a Moderator of posting rubbish. I personanly beleive a Mod is just as capable of posting rubbish as any other user on this site. A mod does not have access to any greater info on these forums, and stands just as much chance of posting myth or falsehood as anyone else.

Glad to see in my absense your sense of self worth is still based on your “rank” on an internet web site. And that your general overiding attitudes have remained unchanged.

So for the record.

To George Eller. I am sorry for doubting your word over the matter. If it makes any difference, I didn’t even know you were a Moderator.

To Panzerknacker. Get a life, prat.

No doubt you will award me some points for calling you a prat now.

By the way, you don’t seem to have commented on my previous post on silencers (bottom of the first page). Any help to you? Or were you just intent on haveing a pop?

Okay, I suggest the definitive banning of this guy since it antecedents, he had 3 infractions already.

Where was this posted? If by PM I have no issues with it. If in the forum it is an issue.

Here is my reply to 1000yd. BTW I did find another photograph with a different view of the Pzh M109 155mm self-propelled gun with “schalldampfer” at the following website of The Range Meppen. Photos are toward the bottom of the page.

The Range Meppen
http://www.relikte.com/meppen/index.htm

In German with many color photographs, including a different view of the picture mentioned above.

Babblefish translator to translate url from German to English - just paste the above url and set to translate to English
http://world.altavista.com/

Further studies on operational spectrum at Meppen - technical center WTD 91 of the German Bundeswehr - Noise suppression systems for German tank guns and artillery.

The latest news from the Rheinmetall group, 3 / 2000
Das Profil
Newsline
http://www.kspg-ag.de/pdfdoc/newsline_3_2000.pdf

ALSO:

You will find a different view of the Pzh M109 155mm self-propelled gun with “schalldampfer” shown above at the following website of The Range Meppen.

The Range Meppen
http://www.relikte.com/meppen/index.htm

In German with many color photographs, including a different view of the picture above.

Babblefish translator to translate url from German to English - just paste the above url and set to translate to English
http://world.altavista.com/

http://www.com-central.net/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=18392

Hello Jeff,
This picture is taken at Meppen in Germany, for some pictures and German text;

www.relikte.com/meppen/index.htm

Here is the WTD 91 (Wehr Technische Dienststelle 91) located which test all types of ammo. As mentioned in another post it is close by civilian population centers. The device is a gigantic silencer and in use with the artillery, not tanks. Meppen is also one of the places were it is allowed to fire the LKE II round. For example, the NL army did some test with the Germans here with the LKE II, firing rounds from -50 to +50 to see what the effects are. This was done without silencer.

Would you kids like to explain or should I just get the hose?

I’ve PMed 1000yrd on all this.

His post was a bit inappropriate or at least could have been said better; but at the same time we not to overreact or else this place will turn into a bunch of shills walking on eggshells. I don’t see the need for a banning, but I also don’t see the need for his insolence coupled with arrogance when speaking too a long time member, much less a mod. People are allowed to be wrong without being trashed, and making categorical statements seems a tad cavalier when they turn turn out to be right…

The topic is here, the 1000yds post was the 13.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6073

His post was a bit inappropriate or at least could have been said better; but at the same time we not to overreact or else this place will turn into a bunch of shills walking on eggshells

I am not overreacting the guy have 3 infraction points already, one has expired but he have a culture of insulting moderators and disrispect of the others.

Let him go insulting somewhere else.

Right, having read the whole thread and hence put it in context here’s my take on things.

PK, you’re WAY out of line on this one. You described 1000 Yard Stare as an Idiot before he said anything to you or anything else, and practically ordered him to apologise for holding a dissenting opinion. An opinion which, frankly, I think he has supported rather well - and he IMHO never went outside the bounds of civilised debate prior to the post you put in here.
As for insulting a moderator, “prat” is about as mild an insult as you can get - frankly I would say your post which sparked him off was more insulting than his. In the circumstances if we were to ban him then we would also have to ban you for exactly the same reason.

I know he was a little over-the-line, but we’ve had heated discussions here before…

I don’t think there are sufficient grounds to ban him…

In any case, it’s not my call…

PK, you’re WAY out of line on this one. You described 1000 Yard Stare as an Idiot before he said anything to you

Sorry but no, I was quoting his signature, wasnt calling him idiot. If is he allowed to have that signature I also could quote it…or not ?.

In the circumstances if we were to ban him then we would also have to ban you for exactly the same reason.

Is interesting to know how always the infractions that should be to other are turned against me. Thank you for your support PDF remember me doing the same in the future.

Yeah, I was kind of upset until I saw you quoted his sig. :smiley:

But the problem here is that people who have a long history bickering over contentious stuff are letting their past baggage control their emotions…

The first line of your response was a quote of his signature (entirely legitimate). The second and third lines can be read in no other way than you calling him an idiot.

Quite apart from the fact that you appear to have mistaken me for someone who gives a flying f*** about whether the other mods “support” me in the privacy of the War Room or not, this post is really, really concerning. Are you trying to tell me that your actions as a moderator are in any way affected by how well you get on with a user on a personal level and whether or not they have supported you in the past? If this is the case (and not just finger trouble) then you are presumably telling me that you have no intention of acting impartially - as expected of a moderator.

In any case that has nothing to do with the point I was making - that you and 1000 Yard Stare were behaving in a very similar manner and we cannot equitably ban him unless we ban you as well. And given I made it very clear that I don’t think he did anything wrong, it then logically follows I do not think you should be banned for your original comment.

Quite apart from the fact that you appear to have mistaken me for someone who gives a flying f*** about whether the other mods “support” me in the privacy of the War Room or not, this post is really, really concerning. Are you trying to tell me that your actions as a moderator are in any way affected by how well you get on with a user on a personal level and whether or not they have supported you in the past? If this is the case (and not just finger trouble) then you are presumably telling me that you have no intention of acting impartially - as expected of a moderator

Feel the way you like it. The “ban me” thing is just stupid.

I have no doubt 1000 Yard Stare feels exactly the same.

He dont. This is my announce in the topic:

I am spliting the artilley silencer post.

The post by 1000yds has been moved to the Moderators section to evaluate if there is a infraction involved.

Obviously there is one, insulting a Moderator, that would be one point but given his antecedents that is my proposal.

General Sandworn clearly stated that when he wrote sometime ago:

I will not tolerate insulting staff members in public. It demeans them. If you need to get nasty PMs are the place to do it. If you do it there please use common sense. This is one of the reasons that I do not want PMs posted in public. This is a place for private talking

But of course I have no idea that he ( 1000yds) had such a big supporter personified in you. I want to give you my apologize to try to enforce the rules. :rolleyes

I could be mistaken since I really don’t care to read that thread again, but I think the “insult” was something akin to calling his post “rubbish.” Hardly a vicious personal slight…

And I think 1000yrds had somewhat been owned in the second thread on this, but his comment actually sparked a decent discussion. Most here have made a comment and have been shown to be either right or wrong according to evidence. And this board has seen its share of bitter flaming, but I can’t see the “rubbish” comment as something out or the order that a lot of good posters here will make if they believe something incorrect, including moi. Even if they may be the one that is in the wrong, which of course is never moi.:slight_smile: And it was an opinion regarding what was said, not a personal slight against George’s character, and the remark was made in connection to his post…

I dunno, I just don’t see it as a terrible uprising or usurpation of authority by 1000YS, and I think this should be dropped as it is in the best interest of the site…

I’m not going to push it any farther. I think that I have posted enough evidence to show that the original pic was indeed genuine. Although if 1000yd wishes to push it further, I am willing to contact WDT 91 in Meppen via email to request confirmation and maybe more pics.

I’m not sure if 1000yd was aware that the original post of that image was from myself. I noticed that sometimes he does tend to be somewhat cavalier in his attitude, making casual remarks regarding posts without really investigating it more thoroughly.

But as you say it did spark a decent discussion.

I have provided no personal support or otherwise to any forum ordinary member. Rather I am giving - in private - my best effort at understanding the situation and my interpretation of the correct course of action to take. I simply do not think that banning a member for calling you a “prat” in the course of a discussion you were not moderating is a proportionate response. If you do take action based on that post you’ll come across as one of those moderators out there who delete anything they disagree with. I genuinely don’t think you are, but that’s how you would come accross to the membership. Forums like that are rarely if ever successful.

We WONT be banning 1000 yard stare.

Yes he can be rather brash and often ‘looks before he leaps’ however, the guy does not warrant a ban for his recent posts. Not only that, he doesn’t even deserve another infraction point.

A Mod’s job is not always easy especially considering that we all volunteer to do it. Therefore we shouldn’t have to put up with insults or constant attempts to undermine us,but this is very subjective.

Although we all have a different style and different meanings on what constitutes an insult we should not let personal feelings towards any particular posters or group of posters influence our impartiality.

In this case it is plainly a ‘Storm in a Teacup’ possibly exacerbated by PK’s lack of colloquial English as opposed to the written English as he understands it. But in my opinion PK did the right thing by bringing the discussion here as opposed to the open forum.

I have sent 1000 yard stare an appropriate PM and the matter is now closed as far as Im concerned. Feel free to comment on my decision but understand that it is final.

Cheers……

George Eller has reported a post.

Reason:

Guys, can you believe this rant. Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

Post: German Artillery silencer !!
Forum: Off Topic - Militaria
Assigned Moderators: pdf27, Panzerknacker, George Eller, Nickdfresh

Posted by: 1000ydstare
Original Content:

Wait out Georgeyboy, I’ll have to check the maps.

But given the fact you can drive from Sennelager town (civie part not the quarters) to one of the Gun positions in a few minutes, like wise on Bergan Hohne Ranges, actually, yes I do think there may be some other ranges that are as close as 2Km to the fireing points, or along the fireing trajectories.

I have mentioned in previous posts, I have actual experience of firing artillery on German ranges, so don’t go all churlish, just because I haven’t leapt into bed with you and agreed to the data and opinions that has been published.

For your information though Sennelager is half the area of Mappen, and Hohne is 140km2.

Incidentally the Artillery training area in Grafenwehr, used by the US, UK and Germans is 229Km2 But isn’t instrumented. Most instruments at these three sites are mobile and drive out when needed.

When you have finished your churlish strop, perhaps you can come back and I’ll tell you what is like actually driving around these ranges instead of viewing them on Googleearth.

Perhaps you’d like to know what these guns sound like, when you are 2km, 1km sod it, standing behind them putting the next round in through the hatch?

As I have said, there may be a reason for these mufflers that is natural (ie birds or similar nesting) or perhaps as Mappen is a testing ground they require to fire such guns for extended periods of time. Read my posts, I have pointed out that these ranges often shut down at night, except for some strictly regulated firings. You can’t test the effects of continuous firing, if the firing is not continuous.

You are aware, of course, that two kilometers can be too close for safe firing around civvies aren’t you? Both at the fireing end and at the impact end. Under the arch it is possible. strangely. And if they are behind the guns.

Like I say Georgey, I am not argueing this from the side of a internet dweller.