Trooping the Colour (Queen´s Birthday Parade)

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#1

I just watched a documentary about the Queen´s birthday parade on German TV.
Now I have some questions:

a) In front of the bands of the foot guards were three men standing, wearing an embroidered yellow uniform with white leggings and a black (dark blue ?) cap (looks almost like a baseball cap), who carried a big mace.
Who are they?

b) I think that the SA80 rifle looks a bit silly during the parade. The German Bundeswehr Wachbattaillon, which does parade duty, e.g. for foreign heads of state, uses the old 98k for parade drill purposes. Why doesn´t the British Army keep some SMLEs or No4s for the parades?

Jan

#2

Walther,
I think the men you refer to are the senior Drum Majors of the Regimental Bands on display.
I agree wih you that, for ceremonial, the Army should have retained the SMLE.

#3

It has been a long-standing tradition of the British Army that ceremonial drill is performed with the service arm of the day. This is why they use the tonka toy.

#4

The Drum Majors of the Household Division wear that particular uniform (along with Household Cavalry bandsmen and state trumpeters) when the Sovereign is present on parade and also for the Lord Mayor of London (the real City one not the elected one for Greater London), because he pays for it.

As Stoat says it is traditional that ceremonial troops carry current service arms, the Queens Colour Squadron drill team of the RAF even does drill displays wih them. It is to remind people that they are real soldiers and not merely some sort of tourist attraction.

#5

Just a slight correction Reiver, they are drum majors but not of the band. The band are not soldiers they are bandsman (persons? as they can be boys and girls). Drummers are soldiers and have frontline duties, normally GPMGSF. Somewhere in the band and drums formation would be the bandmaster/director of music who is senior to the DMjr. Walther as you look at the band and drums the soldiers at the back with what looks like white line down the sleeve of the jackets are drummer and the ones in front would be band.

The only time I have used a slightly non standard rifle was with the SLR and we replaces the furniture with the old wood and varnished it.

#6

Few little points on the trooping the colour.

The bands on display are from the 5 regiments of footguards (Coldstream, Grenadier, Welsh, Scots, Irish) and from the Household Cavalry Regiment (Blues and Royals and Lifeguards). These Regiments are the traditional bodyguard to the Monarch.

The Drum Major is (as far as I can remember from my days playing in a band) - in charge of all movements etc of the band whilst on parade. He comes from one of the Corp of Drums (or pipes and drums if Scottish or Irish), and will be the senior member of the corps. Drum major is an appointment, NOT a rank - in theory you could hold the rank of private, but still be the drum major - not very likely. Reasons for the mace vary - some say the chains symolise a whip - the drum major used to be responsible for floggings.

Bands have both a Director of Music (a commissioned officer), and a Band Master (a WO1). To become a Band Master musicians have to undergo a 3 year course at Kneller Hall (the Army School of Music). This is counted as a Batchelors in Music from Kingston University (I believe). They then have to go for a another course before getting commissioned. These guys, and the Band Sergeant Major (WO2) wear swords in the band.

#7

The drummer boys used to dole out the floggings.

The mace represents the Queen. The bulbous end her head. At know time should the mace be upturned, except by the senior Drum Major at a massed guards event, who will upturn it to cue the other Drum Majors that a command is about to be given.

The movement and position of the Drum Majors hands and mace are used to convey instructions to the Drumers and to the Band should the Drummy being leading the band also.

#8

I have never heard that the mace is meant to represent the sovereign. Obviously, if you have some experience to back this up I will accept this.

Also to clarify, when trying to write the opposite of ‘yes’ it is spelt ‘no’, not ‘know’.

#9

That was taken from my Drum Major (QLR) although I couldn’t put my finger on it at the moment.

I no that’s how you spell know, and I no that know is know and no is no but sometimes mistakes happen you no.

#10

Apologies for questioning a true, blue Brit - thought you were a know it all foreigner there.

#11

No danger of that bob.

Most of the lads on this site actually know their stuff though mate, regardless of nationality.

#12

Bob, the Micks and Jocks have a Corps of Drums and Pipes and Drums (well, the Micks have Drums and Pipes…) , and the Drum Major always comes from the the Corps of Drums, or so I’m told.

The Mace is a development of those swingy things knights used to have, with the spiked ball and the chain - that’s where the head of the mace and the chains on the shaft come from. It doesn’t represent the Queen.

#13

Do you mean a Morningstar? They count as flails, not the same as maces IIRC. Same principle though - blunt force trauma.

#14

Most British Army maces have a little crown and lion on the top, the same as Brigadiers capbadge.

I have yet to see one with spikes.

If they are a development from what a knights weapon why would the Drum/Pipe/Bugle Major get one? To my knowledge the Drum Major has never been on horse back so why give him a horse mounted mans weapon?

Anyway.

Walther, I can’t remember if they do this at every parade, but if the RSM drew his sword on the parade, this is the only time you will see a Non-Commisioned Officer draw his sword on parade.

Normally all Commisioned Officers have their sword drawn (bar the Band Master) on the parade. The various Warrent Officers and other Seniors who may carry swords do not.

The Buglers of the Light Division also carry “swords” but again they are never drawn, although these are actually longer, and very straight, bayonets.

The command “fix bayonets” in Light and Rifle drill is actually “fix swords”. Comes from the formation of the 95th Regiment or the Rifles (think Sharpe if you’ve ever seen the series).

Their rifles were slightly shorter in length than muskets, although the rifled barrels gave greater accuracy, hence to make up for the superior reach that a man with a musket would have, the bayonet was lengthened, until it almost looked like a sword.

Edit to add
Curiously in Gurkha drill (who are rifles and their drill mirrors the Light Divisions in every way) the command is still “fix bayonets”. I was told this is because the Gurkhas never had the “swords”, they had their kukris and they were good enough!!!

#15

1000yards,

Yes the RSM drew his sword during the parade and saluted by kissing the hilt.

I know a little old style rifle drill and know about some of their specialties, like calling the bayonets swords. Somewhere in my bookshelf I have a copy of the 1935 Manual of Basic Drill.
During the programme I wanted to listen to the commands and watch how the troops execute them (Guards drill), but some German commenter was yacking away the whole time telling trivia about the royal family.
:evil:

You guys gave me a lot of valuable information, thanks, keep it up, please! :smiley:

Jan

#16

Kissing the hilt? you sure he didn’t just salute with the sword Jan?

Saluting with a sword is bring the sword up in front of the face, then sweep it down and to the right hand side, done twice if I remember rightly (been long time since I’ve been on a parade where anyone’s been trusted to have a sword). It does look like he could be kissing the hilt I suppose.

#17

If it makes you feel any better the last one I watched had some commentator talking all over it about the Royal family. But he did have some comments on the parade as well.

Any particular questions on drill?

I’m not foot guards myself, but our drill is very similar, no matter who you are in the British Army.

It should also be similar to the German in movement, as it is based on Prussian drill. I know most of the Polish is similar except that instead of slaming the foot down they do a funny out and in thing. Looks like a boy band dance move!!!

One thing to note, is if you watch the Guards march they seem more proud and full of swagger, compared to others.

This is because they march in quick time at 112 beats per minute, the remainder march at 120. I think slow time is 60 regardless of who you are.

The Light Div and Bde of Gurkhas (including QGE, QGS and QOGLR)march at 140 in the quick march and have an extra speed of 180 for the double. Rifles are always trailed, carried in the right hand between the mag and the pistol grip.

In the light drill as well the stamping of feet isn’t quite as needed, arms come to belt height not shoulder height and the commands are slightly different in that one command will iniate a whole flurry of activity.

At the start and end of every drill (unless on the march) you return to the Stand easy.

For example.

Squad, Squad will turn to the right, quick march.

The squad brace up from easy to ease, at the first squad,

then come to attention, turn to the right, and step off.

If weapons are carried they are automatically trailed when standing to attention.

In heavy drill this would take 4 seperate commands!!!

Although in the Gurkhas commands are issued vocally (sometimes in Nepalese) the Light and Rifle Regiments can also issue them by bugle.

This stems to the days when drums were used to command the men in battle. Bugles carried further so were used to command the spread out skirmishers of the light/rifle regiments. The Bugles of the Gurkhas have been replaced by bag pipes (they tend to form firm bonds with highland regiments - as Gurkha are as highland as you get!!!)

There are some here www.royalengineers.ca/Bugle.html used for general use in camp, and in manourvre. If you click on some they actually play as well so you can here them.

#18

Also when the RSM had drawn his sword, the flags were flanked by 4 or 6 sgts. They should have held their weapons diagonaly up, this is the “high port”, it is only used by the guards on the parade square when protecting their colours.

It is also used to indicate being told you can have/do something in the british army. When you were “F*cked off at the high port”!

Edit to add.

Most of the special guard moves are carried out on standard commands, it’s just taht the guard interpret them into movement differently.

#19

Oh, and another one.

You can tell which battalion a foot guard is in from the plume in his bear skin and the groupings of the buttons of the 8 buttons on his chest.

Regiment/Plume&colour/Button spacing/Collar badge/Shoulder badge

Grenadier Guards/Left&White/Singly/Grenade/Royal Cypher

Coldstream Guards/Right&Scarlet/Pairs/Garter/Star Rose

Scots Guards/No plume/Threes/Thistle Star/Thistle

Irish Guards/Right&Blue/Fours/Shamrock/St Patrick Star

Welsh Guards/Left&White-Green-White/Fives/Leek/Leek

There are only 8 buttons so any unmade groups are at the bottom, hence the Scots Guards have 3, 3 and 2, and the Welsh Guards have 5 and 3.

The men you saw were men of the Guards in the ceremonial units.

in 1992 the 2nd Bns of the Grenadiers, Coldstream and Scots Guards were put in to suspended animation. Their colours are looked after by the following units which make up the Ceremonial unit - any Guardsman may be posted to these companies so the Irish and Welsh join them also.

No 2 Company, 2nd Bn Grenadier Guards (renamed Nijmegen Company)
No 7 Comapny, 2nd Bn Coldstream Guards
F Company, 2nd Bn Scots Guards

Found this on wikipedia also

“The Guards Division will receive a new battalion following the restructuring of the army in 2004, when the London Regiment becomes the first ever TA Guards unit.”

The Guards have always resisted having a TA component.

#20

The mace derives from the medieval weapon of the same name. It was composed of a spiked head attached by a chain to a wooden handle. The mace was swung around the head to clear a path or to strike an unhorsed opponent. The basic parts remain, although adapted.

http://www.drummajor.net/documents/RDMAMaceManual_v3.pdf

From the second para on page 5 - it takes a while to load though - you may just want to take my word for it?!

Johnny Moon and Joe MacDonald had a lot of input into writing this, and they’re ex-Brigade of Guards and Scottish Division respectively, so I doubt it’s wrong.