Hi.
Due to the interest shown in th type 95 Ha-Go thread I started this new thread.
There is a series of production photos of the type 3 medium tank Chi-Nu in issue 12 of the tank power series “Japanese Armour vol. 4” (aj-press):
Yours
tom! 
Hi.
And some pics of the tank:
Yours
tom!
Very good Tom, rare pics there.
3D art from this excellent website.
Excellent pics guys, thanks! It was actually a somewhat formidable looking machine, at least compared to earlier Japanese armor.
Hi.
Some informations in the Wikipedia-article you linked are different from mine:
a) The type 3 was an improved version of the type 1 medium tank Chi-He and only used the same suspension as the type 97 medium tank Chi-Ha.
The hull and the superstructure of the type 97 medium tank Chi-Ha was different in many pionts:
- nuts and bolts instead of welding
- maximum armour of 25 mm instead of 50 mm
- curved armour plates instead of flat armour plates
- smaller engine compartment and therefore different form of the vehicle´s rear part
- smaller turret ring diameter
- turret ring position shifted to the right instead of center position
b) Ammunition:
7,5 cm tank gun: 70 total
standard mix: 35 HE, 35 AP
storage: turret rear 2 X 20 grenades, below fighting compartment: 30 grenades
inside view turret rear
7,7 mm tank maschine gun: 3670 rounds in magazines and ammunition boxes
storage: below maschine gun port under the wireless equipment, left side of the fighting compartment, below the fighting compartment
The tank mg could be easily removed and used as aa-mg with the mg-lafette in front of the gunners hatch.
c) The total number of production is not clear. Following japanese sources at least 124 had been built. The numer varies between 120 and up to 168.
inside view gun mount left side
inside view gun mount right side
Yours
tom!
I just joined up and found this thread. Nice!
I’m interested in tracking down production numbers for Japanese AFVs. I have noted that Type 3 Chi-Nu is sometimes listed as 60 and other times 66 built. However, Tom posted that “The total number of production is not clear. Following japanese sources at least 124 had been built. The numer varies between 120 and up to 168.”
Where did 124, 120 and 168 come from?
I’m aware that on the net, anything can be copied and reposted, so the numbers I’ve seen (60 or 66) could simply be in error, which becomes “fact” because it gets repeated so often.
Also, does anyone have values for other vehicles? Or can anyone point me to any online (or other) sources? Many thanks.
Steve
Hi Steve,
Hope this helps.
TAKI’S HOME PAGE
IMPERIAL JAPANESE ARMY PAGE
http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/
The descriptions and data of this page are all based on Japanese sources,
and they are translated into English directly.
Type 3 Medium Tank “Chi-Nu”
http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/chi-nu.htmIntroduced Year : 1944
Weight : 18.8 ton
Dimensions: 5.73 x 2.33 x 2.61(h) m
Armor (max) : 50 mm
Speed (max) : 39 km/hr
Engine : Diesel Engine 240 PS/2000 rpm
Armaments : Type 3 75 mm x 1, Type 97 7.7 mm x 1
Crew : 5
Production Qty : 166This tank was developed in order to cope with M4 Sherman. Its hull is the same of Chi-He and its gun was converted from Type 90 field gun. Chi-Nu was deployed in Japan proper to prevent expected Allied invasion.
Hi.
Many documents regarding armament development and wartime production have been destroyed before surrender. So original documents are rare.
The US military spend much time and money in regaining the armament development data but as the japanese tank tech was far inferiour to the german tank tech only limited research was done in this direction.
Most production data I´ve seen were copied from various US pre-war and post-war intel reports and can not be trusted.
The former commander of the japanese Army Technical Branch, Mr Hara Tomio, is author and co-author of some japanese publications on this topic.
I don´t know if the production numbers he mentioned are correct.
Maybe you should contact Mr. Takizawa Akira at http://www3.plala.or.jp/takihome/.
Number of afv by types (afaik):
foreign armoured vehicles
Mark IV female: 1
Whippet: ca. 6
type 79/ko-gata(Renault FT 17 and FT 18): ca. 13
Austin AC: > 2
Renaulf 6wheel AC: > 1
Vickers Crossley AC: > 10
Wolseley AC: > 2
St. Chamond M21 Wheelcumtrack: 1
Vickers Mk. C: 3
otsu-gata/ Renault NC 27:10
type Ka tankette/Carden-Loyd Mark VI: 6
Vickers 6t: 2 + some captured in China after 1937
Vickers amphibious tank: 1 captured in China
US light M3: more than 50 captured on the Philippines and in Burma
captured AFV with evidence of use in japanese units in unknown numbers (at least for test purposes):
- KNIL Krupp APC
- KNIL ovaervalwagen
- KNIL light Mk VI
- Bren carrier
- US M3 halftrack
- US M3 halftrack with 75 mm howitzer
- chinese T26
- chinese Panzer I
- soviet BA 64
- soviet BA 10
japanese models:
Experimental tank No. 1: 1
type 88 experimental tank: design study only
type 89 medium tank (“Chi-Ro”"):
- version Ko (gasoline engine): ca. 278
- version Otsu (Diesel engine): ca. 126
experimental amphibious halftrack “AMP”: 1-2 prototype(s)
type 91 experimental heavy tank: 1 (reworked experimental tank No. 1)
“Hokoku” AC: 2 (or more, maybe as donation, designation after an vehicle inscription on the pics taken in Shanghai 1932)
“Hokoku-Go”/“Osaka” AC: 1
“type 92” AC: > 2
“Aikoku”/“Sumida” AC: ca. 100
type 91 AC “So-Mo”: ca 1000
type 92 heavy armoured vehicle: 167
armoured engineer vehicle “SS”: > 98 in 5 versions
experimental amphibious tank SR-I: 1
type 94 tk special tractor: 843
dynamo vehicle “Ka-Ha”: 4
type 95 armoured railroad car “So-Ki”: 121
type 95 crane vehicle “Ri-Ki”: < 100
type 95 experimental heavy tank: 4
experimental amphibious tank SR-II: at least 2
type 95 light tank “Ha-Go”: ca. 2377
experimental amphibious tank SR-III: 1
type 97 tankette “Te-Ke”: 593
type 97 pole planter: < 50
type 97 cable layer: < 50
type 97 experimental medium tank “Chi-Ni”: 1
type 97 medium tank “Chi-Ha”: ca. 1450
type 97 command tank “Shi-Ki”: > 20
type 97 mini engineer vehicle “Ya-I Go”: ca 300
type 97 recovery tank “Se-Ri”: few
type 98 light tank “Ke-Ni”: ca. 115
type 98 armoured carrier “So-Da”: > 50
experimental type 98 medium tank “Chi-Ho”: 1
type 100 observation vehicle “Te-Re”: > 10
type 97 medium tank “Shinhoto Chi-Ha”: ca. 757 in 4 versions
type 1 medium tank “Chi-He”: > 170
type 1 self-propelled gun “Ho-Ni I”: >100
type 1 self-propelled gun “Ho-I”: ca. 30
type 1 self-propelled gun “Ho-Ni II”: > 30
type 1 APC “Ho-Ki”: > 50
type 1 APC “Ho-Ha”: > 50
armoured lumberjack “Ho-K”: ca. 40
experimental superheavy tank “O-I”, version 1: 2 chassis
experimental aa-tank “Ki-To”: 1
experimental bridgelayer “T-G”: 1
experimental aa-tank “Ta-Se”: 1
experimental armoured trench excavator: 1
type 2 light tank “Ke-To”: ca. 29
type 2 amphibious tank “Ka-Mi”: ca. 184
type 3 medium tank “Chi-Nu”: > 120
type 3 amphibious tank “Ka-Chi”: ca. 20
type 3 SPG “Ho-Ni III”: ca. 40
experimental/“Special No. 3” flying (glider)tank “So-Ra”: wooden mockup
type 3 experimental light tank “Ke-Ri”: 1 Ha-Go reworked in 1943
experimental 20 mm twin aa-tank: 1 prototype
type 4 light tank “Ke-Nu”: some Ha-Go were reworked in 1944/45
type 4 SPG “Ho-Ro”: ca. 25
type 4 experimental tank “Chi-To”: 6 prototypes
type 4 SP 300 mm mortar “Ha-To”: 4 prototypes
experimental superheavy tank “O-I”, version 2: 1 chassis
type 5 experimental light tank “Ke-To”: prototype production started
type 5 experimental tank “Chi-Ri”: 1 prototype
type 5 75 mm tank hunter “Na-To”: < 15
type 5 experimental 47 mm tank hunter “Ho-Ru”: 1 prototype
experimental superheavy tank “O-I”, version 3: probably 1 prototype
experimental 105 mm tank destroyer “Ho-Ri”: early design studies
Yours
tom!
Thank you both very much! I was aware of Taki’s website but have not yet done a thorough read (following all links and such).
I started with a basic list of well-known vehicles and have branched out from there slowly, trying to track down web photos of the various models, and production figures, along with actual year of introduction and that sort of thing. I wasn’t thinking any production numbers I came across would be 100% accurate, but I’m hoping they are close.
My interest is dual, both for historical purposes, and for gaming. When it comes to gaming, I’d like to know that they produced 500 of model X but only 3 prototypes of Model Y. When people bandy about force listings I’d like to have a reasonable grasp of just how many of something might have been out there, how common or rare it might have been to encounter that particular vehicle. For example, I have no problems facing (or fielding) a full platoon of Type 5 Chi-Ri because it’s “what-if” gaming. But knowing they only ever made 1 of them, and a prototype at that (it was never operational), is fun to know.
I will continue to pursue the numbers, and start digging into Taki’s site. Again, thanks to you both.
Steve
Tom! good information. Panzerknacker good pictures! Now I know what we are talking about.
Hi everyone!
The name is Alfred and I live in Osaka. my main area of interest is WW2 Japan and yes, I read Japanese.
So here goes:
Akira’s Japanese army homepage states that 166 vehicles were built. In recent Japanese publications such as Gakken’s Pacific war series and the Panzer magazine’s Japanese tank book numbers are betweern 150 and 211. Finemold’s Mr Suzuki and Art box also say that there were at least 150 built. They found some production numbers at Mitsubishi and Hitachi’s archives that mention the same numbers so in Japan it’s pretty clear that more than 150 were built. There also exists an army order ordering 200 type 4 tanks between September 1945 and May 1946.
Hope this helps!
Hi.
Another unknown detail, many thanks.
There are only few details avaliable about the japanese late-war afv development and production.
Do you have any informations regarding the status of the development of the Ka-To 105 mm tank destroyer, the superheavy tank O-I or the 105 mm gun tank Ho-Ri?
By the way, I have to add the following to my foreign armoured vehicle list above:
Fiat 3000 Model 21: 1
Yours
tom!
i dont know much about jap tanks only the ha-go and chi cha. they where underpowerd vs alied tanks like the sherman. is this tank beter then the hago en chicha?
I do not believe that this vehicle would make a serious contribution to the home defense effort, it was still too lightly armored to withstand the weapons it would encounter had the Allies decided on a ground invasion of Japan’s home islands. Shermans would be there, but more likely they would be the minority,used as support tanks, as there would be time to muster the latest, largest, weapons to send against the home guard.( personally, I would have gathered all of the usable German armor possible, and sent it in as the spearhead.) From the photos of the assembly line, it appears that most any Allied tank could hole it with ease. The main gun of this tank is formidable to be sure, but the gun is just a part of the equation, (The German “Ferdinand” is a good example) This vehicle was too little, and too late.
The japanese tank tactic never saw a tank to tank battle. The major force was the infantry - tanks had to support the infantry - not more. Therefore the japanese tanks where excellent. Air cooled diesel engines some machine guns and a support cannon 37mm and 57mm.
Exactly that was the role of these Type 3 tank - supporting the infantry - the 75mm gun is an artillery piece - not an anti tang gun.
The 47mm gun in the Shin Hoto was introduced as an high velocity AT gun.
With HE shells he was mainly used as infantry support tank - not in tank hunting role. The tank hunter never was in Japan - mostly only in some trials and experimental tanks. The high velocity guns of 75mm and 105 mm where borrowed by the navy and test firings and AP ammo must be developed for army use. The navy guns where made to be bolted on a ships deck - recoil was murderous. The guns must converted to low recoil to mount them on a vehicle. a lot of problems to solve.
Even the 75mm field piece used in the Type 3 has too much recoil and so the tracks and wheels where made stronger tracks are broader and the gun gets an muzzle brake.
Which is the problem, as this tank would be the target of Allied attention. In a land invasion of the home islands, tanks would be loosed in their hoards, primarily to attrit, and neutralize any armor, or artillery threat fielded by Japan.(that the air forces didnt get to first) As well as the usual job of taking out strong points,and swarming over them. My observation is that why go to the trouble of producing a larger tank, that is no better than their smaller tanks when compared to the modern, highly efficient weapons the Allies would muster to Reduce the islands.
Seems a waste of time. Yes, a nice field gun, I did notice that part, that would be something to deal with for infantry, but the U.S. and allies had learned about tank to tank fighting, and this tank would not survive an encounter.
Hi.
Some corrections:
The high-velocity type 5 75 mm tank gun was a side developed from the type 4 aa-gun, more or less an improved version of the prewar 75 mm M29 Bofors gun which was captured in NEI.
The high-velocity type 5 105 mm tank gun was developed from a late-30th experimental 105 mm long-range artillery gun which was based on the type 92 105 mm artillery cannon.
In general the army rated the naval guns as too heavy and too immobile to be useful even for defence. Conversion would have been too expensive and so from all avaliable naval guns only the type 93 13,2 mm machine cannon was used by the army officially (ok, some obsolete battleship guns were used in coastal fortresses after 1923 but that doesn´t really count).
Yours
tom!
Well, what can I say? The type 3 had a good gun and 50mm of armour. Check out the US Intelligence report from July 1945 to see what Japanese tanks could do. Go to http://www.ionesentry.com/articles/jp_type97_tank/index.html
The type 3 would not have been as easy to knock out as you say. And how would the Americans have sent German tanks to Japan? I am sick and tired of people giving shit to the Japanese!
I kinda miss some japanese input on the site! Maybe not this emotional but it still would be very interesting!