S&W 38/200, this was a british request gun, the cartrigde was the 38 S&W(short variant not the special) with a 200 grain bullet…result, a reaaally slow muzzle velocity.
Encyclopedya of weapons of ww2.
Good shooting in that film clip. Actually, the 200-grain bullet was never used during the war. It was an unpatched lead bullet, and concern over possible objections to this by enemy combatants led to the adoption in 1938 of the Mk. 2 round with a 178-grain jacketed bullet.
Here are two Smith & Wesson Military & Police martial “Victory” revolvers from my collection. Above is a U.S. cal. .38 Special shipped to the Navy in 1943. Below is a .38-200 Lend-Lease New Zealand issue shipped 1942. The holster is dated 1944.
The second photo is of S&W armed New Zealand machine gunners in the Monte Cassino Sector, 1944. (Imperial War Museum) in Charles Pate, U.S. Handguns of WWII: The Secondary Pistols and Revolvers.
JT
Nice pictures there.
Actually, the 200-grain bullet was never used during the war
What bullet weigth it had then ?
178-grain jacketed, the Mk. 2.
JT
Thanks Panzerknacker for the article on the Smith & Wesson Model 1917 Revolver.
I copied it below and spliced two pictures under it of my S&W Model 1955 which uses the same frame as the Model 1917, but with 6.5 inch barrel and adjustable target sights.
(12 Feb 2007)
Above are two pictures of my S&W Model 1955 which uses the same frame as the Model 1917, but with 6.5 inch barrel and adjustable target sights. I installed Model 1917 walnut grips to replace the original oversized grips. Also shown are the half-moon clips with .45 ACP rounds.
Colt Model 1917 Revolver
Guns & Ammo: Surplus Firearms, 2005, pp 103-105
My dad used to have one of these back in the 1960’s and 70’s.
The looking of this gun a a heavy duty one and according to james it seems to suit well :rolleyes: . I see that you have a large Guns & Ammo collection, do you have the Garry james test of the .45 Luger maybe ?
Gentlemen:
Thanks for the articles on the M1917 revolvers. I have always found the story of this alternate standard sidearm fascinating. They were also used during WWII, mainly by military police.
I must disagree with one statement in the article posted by Panzerknacker, which says that the clips were designed to “keep the cartridges from slipping too far into the revolver chambers.” These rimless cartridges headspace on the case mouth, against a shoulder in the chamber. The clips, invented by Joseph Wesson, only give purchase to the extractor. Without the clips, the empty cases must be pushed out of the chambers individually from the front of the chamber.
Here’s a photo of my M1917 Colt, shipped October, 1918.
JT
One important difference between the colt and the Smith & Wesson model 1917 revolvers, aside from the cylinders rotating in opposite directions, was that the Smith & Wesson could be used without the clips, the Colts not. This is because the Smith & Wesson’s were properly chambered, and allowing the cartridge to headspace on the case mouth, whereas the Colts were not and the cartridges would drop too far into the chambers. Of course, ejection without the clips requires either very clean chambers allowing you to pick the empties out, or a pencil or similar.
In another month, in theory, I shall be receiving my 45 ACP model 625.
Interestingly, Smith and Wesson are producing the M1917 again, although they don’t quote a price.
Pretty pretty pretty! I want one! It would go nicely alongside the excellent Colt M1873 replica…
Only the first 30,000 Colts had chambers bored straight through, with no shoulders. According to Pate, it is likely that most of these cylinders were replaced with counterbored cylinders. The remaining 120,000 revolvers, of which mine is an example, were made with shoulders in the chambers.
Another difference is the shrouded ejector rod on the S&W. Also, the Colt has a trigger pull from hell when fired double action ( I shoot mine single action), not at all as smooth and light as the S&W.
One additional difference is in serial numbering. The S&W M1917, which is a .44 Hand Ejector, had its own serial range. The Colts are in the New Service range, so had two numbers, the factory number, and the service number beginning with 1 stamped on the butt. This number was assigned by Army Ordnance.
Interesting that you are buying a S&W M625. I bought myself one as a Christmas present to help reduce the temptation to shoot my U.S. .45s, the oldest of which was made in November, 1917. That’s the Model of 1911 one in my avatar, by the way.
Here’s a photo of the new toy.
JT
And here’s a photo of two MPs in New Guinea, late 1942. The men are carrying what appear to Colts, from the curvature of the grips, in M1909 Pattern butt-forward holsters.
JT
Panzerknacker, Man of Stoat, jacobtowne, thanks for the interesting pics and info guys.
Panzerknacker, I will dig through my old issues of Guns&Ammo for the .45 cal Luger.
Man of Stoat, congratulations on the S&W 625 - nice piece. Love the new S&W M1917 - indeed a beautiful, classic firearm.
I may buy one myself. 
Panzerknacker, I will dig through my old issues of Guns&Ammo for the .45 cal Luger.
I really preciated that 
Now a little off topic the argentine model .45
Here is a American SIG P210
Here is a different type of Colt pistol Revolver
Cavalry Model Pistol from World War2
Hope You Enjoy Them!
An article by Garry James from Guns&Ammo November 1992 (Volume 36, No. 11), pp 62-65.
Mitchell Arms (American-made in Houston, Texas) stainless steel clone of Luger P-08 pistols originally produced for the American market (American Eagle Lugers). Sorry Panzerknacker, but could not find a Garry James article on the .45 cal model - just the 9mm version.
SEE ALSO:
Mitchell’s Mausers
http://www.mauser.org/
.45 Caliber Lugers
http://www.lugerforum.com/45Luger.html
.45 Luger Gallery
http://gmund.rennlist.com/luger/index.html
Another .45 Caliber Luger Mystery
http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergallery/CaptainMonty45
Lugerforum Gallery
http://gallery.lugerforum.com/lugergallery/
Luger pistol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_pistol
Preciated.
For 700 $ that is a bargain pistol
Yes, $700 seems pretty modest compared to some of the original Lugers they have listed at Mitchell’s Mausers - prices ranging between $4,500 to $6,500. That’s quite a bit beyond my budget.
http://www.mauser.org/autopistols/hist_p-08%20luger/index.htm
Although I would imagine that a Mitchell Arms Luger would probably fetch more in today’s money than in 1992.
Although I would imagine that a Mitchell Arms Luger would probably fetch more in today’s money than in 1992
That little thing call inflation, I now about it. :neutral:
Liberator pistol, the most imprecise of all.
Good story. The Liberator is a peculiar chapter in American sidearms. Here’s a copy of the illustrated instructions that came with them. Current price for one of these things is very high.
JT
