Waffen SS

THE WAFFEN SS

The Waffen-SS were the armed units of the Schutzstaffel, better known as the SS. The SS were the protective guards of the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) - or the “Nazis.” Many soldiers in the Waffen-SS distinguished themselves in combat, and in a small number of cases, became notorious for their atrocities. However, these crimes against humanity should not label the entire Waffen-SS as an organization of hate. The vast majority of soldiers were combatants, not criminals.

This apolitical site is to explore the combat role of the Waffen-SS in World War II.

HISTORY OF WAFFEN SS:
History of the Waffen-SS

In 1933, the Schutzstaffel organized a full-time armed branch called the SS-Verfügungstruppen (SS-VT).  These units were placed at Hitler's disposal, and were intended to be special purpose troops for such duties as putting down counterrevolutions and strikes, conduct purges, and quell riots.  By 1939, the size of the SS-VT expanded to four regiments (Standarten), due to the usefullness of having combat units outside the control of the German military.  These soldiers were carefully selected, and the requirements to join were very strict. 
The role of the SS-VT was eventually expanded.  Himmler desired to have a military force that rivalled that of the German Army, and equipped these troops with the most modern weapons and vehicles.  The training was considered tougher than that of the Army's, since Waffen-SS training involved the use of live ammunition. When the Germans annexed Austria and Czechoslovakia, there were SS-VT troops right along side those of the Army.  Before the invasion of Poland, the SS-VT was given extensive military training in the tactics of warfare, and formed into units similar to those of the Army.  These troops were exposed to combat, giving the SS-VT a root cadre of experienced soldiers to build upon.  After the Polish campaign, three SS-VT regiments who had seen combat were expanded into Brigades, and later Divisions (the Standarte Der Führer did not participate in Poland since they were stationed at the West Wall, and was completing training). 

The Waffen-SS continued to expand their numbers, but competed for recruits with all the other military services.  The strict requirements for membership decreased the pool of potential recruits even further.  In an attempt to bolster their numbers, the Waffen-SS began recruiting for non-german, "nordic" peoples who lived outside the German border. This gave the Waffen-SS an advantage over the army, who were prevented by law from recruiting from conquered territories.  The Standarte Nordland and the Standarte Westland were formed and combined with the Standarte Germania, forming the Wiking Division. 

By 1943, the strict recruiting requirements of the Waffen-SS were too cumbersome. With the mounting losses in the war, the reduced number of potential recruits, and escalation of the war onto multiple fronts, the Waffen-SS was forced to lower the requirements necessary to join. This permitted the Waffen-SS to muster 31 Divisions, of which consist of 7 Panzer Divisions by 1945. However, about a third of these Divisions were classified as “non-Germanic,” (composed primarily of non-Germanic personnel), and rarely had enough soldiers to deserve the classification of “Division” (see Organization for details). At the end of the war, ethnic germans, or volkdeutsch, actually outnumbered Germans in the Waffen-SS. The 11.SS-Freiwilligen-Panzer-Grenadier-Division “Nordland” , composed of both germansand non-germans, fought to the bitter end in Berlin, defending the Reichschancellory and the Führerbunker.

Evolution of the Waffen-SS units

The Verfüngungstruppen took part in the occupation of both Austria and Czechoslovakia along with those of the Wehrmacht. Following these occupations, the Verfüngungstruppen were given formal military training in anticipation of the war. They were formed into regular military units and participated in the invasion of Poland. These units were eventually expanded into brigades and eventually division size elements.

The military branch of the SS at this time was first known as the Bewaffnete SS, and later Waffen-SS. The unit Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler became the SS Division of the same name, while the unit Deutschland and Der Führer became the Verfüngungs Division, with the unit Langemarck eventually being added. With this addition, they were renamed the division Das Reich. Units of the Totenkopf were formed into the Totenkopf Division. These were the Waffen-SS’s first three divisions, and would play significant roles throughout World War II.

With the intensification of the war, the Waffen-SS began to recruit outside of Germany. In 1940, the Standarte Nordland and Standarte Westland were created to begin placement of these foreign recruits within the SS military structure. Eventually, these two units were combined with the Standarte Germanic to comprise the Wiking Division. Based on this practice of forming units from foreign recruits, the Waffen-SS created native “Legions” in occupied countries. Eventually, these units were enlarged (some in name only) into brigades and divisions.

Units containing a high percentage of “racial” Germans and “Germanic” volunteers were designated as “Freiwilligen” within their names, e.g. 11. SS-Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier Division “Nordland”. Those units that contained a high percentage of non-Germanic personnel carried the designation “Waffen-” within their names, e.g. 15. Waffen-Grenadier-Division-SS (lett. Nr. 1).

Officers of “non-Germanic” origin could not become full members of the SS officer corps, but were instead designated as Waffen-Führer der SS, and their individual rank reflected this as well, e.g. Waffen-Untersturmführer.

THE BEST UNIT FOR ME WERE THE WAFFEN SS,THEY TORTURED,YES,BUT THE MOST OF THEM FOUGHT LIKE REAL SOLDIERS!,THEY WERE THE MOST TRAINED.

Excellent post, thank you.

excellent post, but i am a little bit confuse, i thought gen.sandworm already made simuliar post

lots of thanks my friends! :slight_smile:

but this isn´t of the SS,this is of the Waffen SS,maybe our general was talking about other SS unit.

And you accuse the Gurkhas of savagery. The SS as a whole are not admirable, and the WAFFEN SS for whom it seems you have much affection and interest are worse still.

the Gurkhas fought in the Falkland islands and you think it was unfair to fight you with troops that were efficent. sorry next time you invade we’ll repel you with the womens auxillary corps and a supply of tea cakes.

This is a gurkha and SS discussion please do not refer to the Island conflict in your response.

“Why are the WAFFEN SS respectable, when the Gurkhas are fiends?” is it the use of the KUKRI? Gurkhas kill soldiers with Kukri’s in armed conflict. The SS killed jewish women and children with rifles for “beer and skittles”
CONFUSED, I wait for a response

this is the waffen SS topic,so,here the gurkas are out.

about waffen ss,all people know german killed jews in ww2,i dont think thats good,but why the people thinks german soldiers were the best,if they killed jews too???,i have the same oppinion.

I dont believe that the German forces were the best they were good, but I dont speak german so somewhere along the line there must have been a better force and I am only asking what it is that means you will defend the respectability of the WAFFEN SS but call the Gurkhas “Devils”

Dont recall my government ever having formed a body of men “specifically” for the rape abuse and murder of enemies of the state.
Have even fewer recollections of any of my military mates ever having shown an interest in joining such a group if it were to be formed.

the WAFFEN SS was a hangout for the Smeg of the Third Reich. (serioulsy you cant MOD that statement, can you?)

To respect these butchers, (how many appeared at Nurenburg) Whilst accusing certain British regiments of unethical behaviour in contravention of both the Geneva and Hague conventions is frankly ludicrous.[/i]

the SS are germans or from other countries,but they weren`t mercenaries,who fight for money and sadism.

hang on mate

“The Waffen-SS continued to expand their numbers, but competed for recruits with all the other military services. The strict requirements for membership decreased the pool of potential recruits even further. In an attempt to bolster their numbers, the Waffen-SS began recruiting for non-german, “nordic” peoples who lived outside the German border. This gave the Waffen-SS an advantage over the army, who were prevented by law from recruiting from conquered territories. The Standarte Nordland and the Standarte Westland were formed and combined with the Standarte Germania, forming the Wiking Division”

"Units containing a high percentage of “racial” Germans and “Germanic” volunteers were designated as “Freiwilligen” within their names, e.g. 11. SS-Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier Division “Nordland”. Those units that contained a high percentage of non-Germanic personnel carried the designation “Waffen-” within their names, e.g. 15. Waffen-Grenadier-Division-SS (lett. Nr. 1).

Officers of “non-Germanic” origin could not become full members of the SS officer corps, but were instead designated as Waffen-Führer der SS, and their individual rank reflected this as well, e.g. Waffen-Untersturmführer"

ok so these guys didnt join for the money,
and they didnt join for the sadism,
they Just joined cos they really wanted to get shot at?
and of all the units they could have joined they chose the WAFFEN SS because… They throw the best parties?

If you remove the desire to fight for money and you remove the desire to fight for sadism then I think you are left with Ideology.
The Waffen SS aregood guys because they were devoted to the NAZI IDEOLOGY!

incidentally are you implying that Gurkhas join the forces to kill things and practice sadism. If you wanted to do that you can stay in Nepal and not be subject to military law, and In Nepal I daresay its easier to get away with random acts of brutality than in one of the most publicly visible armies in the world.

LETS NOT IRRITATE THIS FORUM.

The SS and the Waffen SS…which i dont really see the difference. But they did defend there country for what they thought was right. However wrong I feel it was. Lets try to stay on topic and talk about what they did. I think its fine to say they were a strong minded group that defended their country but i dont wanna here that they were soliders that we should look upto. Thats Neo-Nazism and that aint happening on here.

sorted - so can we ask what you’ll be doing about our friend Erwin?

“THE BEST UNIT FOR ME WERE THE WAFFEN SS,THEY TORTURED,YES,BUT THE MOST OF THEM FOUGHT LIKE REAL SOLDIERS!,THEY WERE THE MOST TRAINED”

“just another case of History repeating”

Italy - end of WWI “mutilated victory”
germany - end of WWI “stab in the back”

and so it goes on…

So he likes the Waffen SS. Thats fine. In that statement he is refering to their fighting abilites. Maybe they were great maybe they werent. I personally think they were bastards. I believe it was Waffen SS troops that executed about 150 US POW’s at Malmandy during the Battle of the Bulge. I dont feel he is spouting Neo-Nazism.

Secondly I do feel Germany was stabbed in the back by the allies at the end of WW1. I think the allied powers did a fine job of seting up a nation for a wacko like Hitler to come to power in. If you want to get down to it. (Without going to off topic) I dont blame Hitler for what he did in the early days when he took power. 1933 to 35 or 36. I see him trying to bring a crushed nation back to life. Now when all the Anti Semitism came to life he is just crazy. And it only got worse. Sad part is that alot could have been done to stop Hitler but the action just wasnt taken. :frowning:

I am interested in the Waffen SS and what they did. But I dont condone looking upto them as sometype of hero’s. Please feel free to debate Erwin on their fighting abilities as I am not prepared at the moment.

“the best unit for me”

of all the soldiers in all the conflicts of all the nations that were involved in that war.

Goodnight,

Defended their country ?

If the history books are correct I believe they took part in quite a few invasions before they had annoyed enough people who took exception to that trend. :lol:

In the end they did defend their country no doubt about that, but it was one of the Freiwilligen units that were the last to jack it in in Berlin.

they could fight but tacticly they were pants standing and fighting to the death is brave but if there is an option to withdraw and lure the enemy into a prepared kill zone is a much better tactic.

“It is the mark or youth to wish to die nobly for a cause and the mark of a wise man to live humbly for one” - suspect it was Samuel Johnson

i only like their military,i think they had the best trainment in the history,best uniforms,they were the most preciated unit of the third reich.

i like them because that,whats the problem?? here,all admirate a unit of assasins (im not going to talk about them,coz this is the waffen SS).

if you don`t think them interesting.try to not post here. :smiley:

I understand that you appreciate their role in action, but I don’t quite follow your assumption that they received the best training in history.
To what are you comparing their training ?

Sure physical fitness was an important factor in their training regime but it has also been a key factor in many other units.

Nor can the SS be viewed as a specific unit as there were many divisions and branches of service. One can hardly compare a Sturmmann cook from 2 SS Pz Reg with a Leg.-Sturmmann from 21 Waffen Geb Art .

The distinction between the Allgemeine and Waffen SS was already quite blurred by 1940 with numerous transfers to and from the two formations. This was due to a number of reasons, injury, battle casualty replacements and gong hunting being just three taken at random. Indeed the SSTK were regularly suplemented by men from the SSTV reserves much to the annoyance of Eicke, this annoyance being due to the fact that many of them were criminals not that they were heavily indoctrinated.

In fact Eicke, a major figure in the SS, regarded ideological indoctrination as essential to thorough, well rounded training.
My opinion of training therefore does not correspond with his, I’m happier with a soldier that can think on his feet too. :slight_smile:

I honestly dont see the difference between the normal SS and the Waffen SS could someone explain??? Its seems to me that the Waffen SS did more actual fighting then normal SS units. So im a bit confused… :roll: :?:

Hmm… Maybe we must return to begin to understand this? But the roots of SS is more old that you think. Look to my nick. “Komissar” where born this word? The komissars first showed them to the world in the North Army in Civil War in USA. They was special official members of presidents personal guard. Main target of them - control the war spirit of soldiers and eradicate the traitors and freeks. This practice was liked by communists. And Soviet Union was used Komissars in NKVD and ChK. Primary target of NKVD is inner safety, but the goal to to control occupied teritories was attached. The goverment of Hitler was a copy of SU. I can’t find a lot of difference between nazi-socialism and red socialism. The goals of SS was such in SU - inner safety and control of occupied territories. The famous “german discipline” is based on work of SS. About repressions - yes, they made it like NKVD. But be real - war is war. If you have large occupied territory, lack of soldiers to hold it, what you can do? Only mass-production of kills. Another answers isn’t work in the war. The SS wasn’t bloody maniacs or vampires - that’s fables for small children. They was professionals making theirs dirty (real dirty, but needed) work for theirs own country.