Was the Holodomor only and against Ukraine?

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#1

Hello folks
I think this some of our Ukrainian memebers a little biased toward the aspect of the USSR history.
For instance the Kato wrote that the “Russians specially created the holodomor” to kill as much Ukrainians as they could.
So i think this thread shoul make the points clear.
Here is the interesting article about Falsifications of the Holodomore Datas asd photos that tody constantly uses the some of dirty politicans for the race-hate propoganda in its states.

[quote]http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Голодомор/Политизация
Фальсификация истории украинского голода 1932—1933 годов проводилась в множестве стран: например нацистская Германия, США времён холодной войны и современная Украина[источник?]. Одним из первых популяризаторов голодоморной темы было в 1930-х годах правительство нацистской Германии Так одна из первых публикаций в газете Фёлькишер Беобахтер, эта газета с 1920 г. являлась публикационным органом нацистcкой NSDAP . Однако практически сразу же появились замечания, так 10 февраля 1935 года Нью-Йорк таймс написала: в германской и австрийской прессе развязана голодоморная пропаганда о несчастных жертвах Советского голода. … некоторые фотографии были сделаны раньше в 1921 году во время голода на Волге. Это излюбленный приём антибольшевицкой пропаганды

Появлялись и фотографии, подписи под которыми гласили, что они были сделаны в период 1932—1933 гг. на территории Украины, в то время, как в действительности местом съемки, как правило, было Поволжье в 1921—1922 гг. Существуют они и в настоящее время. Можно сравнить, например, «Истоки зла. Тайна коммунизма» Москва. 2000. http://orthodoxos.by.ru/antivavilon/istokizla/13.htm и IPV News USA http://gulag.ipvnews.org/articles/ar0040/photo008.php . Первоисточник этой фотографии размещён например в Альбоме иллюстраций «La famine en Russie» изданном в Женеве в 1922 году на французском и русском языке, страница 10.

Более того: их иногда используют и политики. Одним из таких примеров современного мифотворчества может быть участие президента Украины 24 ноября 2006 года в открытии выставки «архивных документов» . На этой выставке украинские пропагандисты выдавали фотографии 20-х годов за фотографии жертв 30-х годов.

Исторические материалы, подобным образом сфальсифицированные, некоторые нечистоплотные деятели кладут в основу идеологии, которая, по их замыслу, может сформировать новую нацию. Так по мнению наблюдателей голодомор исполняет роль основного символа, который должен объединить историческое сознание всех украинцев .
…
The falsification of the history of Ukrainian hunger 1932 - 1933 it were carried out in many countries: for example Nazi Germany, THE USA the times of the Cold War and contemporary Ukraina. One of the first popularizers of golodomornoy theme was in 1930- years the government of Nazi Germany so one of the first publications in the newspaper “Felkisher Beobaher”, this newspaper since 1920 was the publication organ of the Nazy NSDAP . However, observations practically immediately appeared, so on 10 February, 1935, New-York Times wrote: "in the German and Austrian press untied Holodomore propaganda about the unhappy victims of Soviet hunger… some photographs were made earlier in 1921 during the hunger in the Volga. This is the favorite the reception of Nazy propaganda "

Appeared photographs, signatures under which said, what they were made in period 1932 - 1933 in the territory of the Ukraine, while in actuality a place of survey, as a rule, there were Volga Region in 1921 - 1922 there exist they and at present.
It is possible to compare, for example, "the sources of evil. Secret of communism "Moscow. 2000. http://orthodoxos.by.ru/antivavilon/istokizla/13.htm and IPV News USA http://gulag.ipvnews.org/articles/ar0040/photo008.php.
The ultimate source of this photograph is placed for example in the album of illustrations “La famine en Russie” published in Geneva in 1922 in French and the Russian language, page 10.
And what is more: they sometimes are used and policy.
One of such examples of contemporary myth creation can be the participation of the President of the Ukraine on 24 November, 2006, in the discovery of the exhibition of “archive documents”. On this exhibition Ukrainian propagandists issued the photograph of the 20th it was annual for the photographs of the victims of the 30th it was annual.
Historical materials, similarly falsificed , some dirty workers place as the basis of ideology, which, according to their concept, can form new nation. So in the opinion of the observers of golodomor fulfills the role of the basic symbol, which must combine the historical consciousness of all Ukrainians.


The alleged “victims of Holodomore in Ukraine 1933” - indeed this photo of the victimes of famine in Volga in 1921.

So gentlemens as you could see the ONE of the lovely mehtod of Nazy propoganda that “proves it was a devil Russian who make the special Holodomer in Ukraine” - indeed served ONLY for the politicals aims and has nothing with truth.
The Holodomore of 1933 were not ONLY in Ukraine but also in the Volga region, Kazahstan , Kavkaz and Kuban ( where i personaly live).
It sadly that the Ukrainian President used the old NAzy propogand material - this had obvious political aim to to join the all Ukraine people agains the Russians.
This is politicaly danger tend are very popular among the Orange coalition that try for join the traditionaly loyal for the Russians the East of Ukraine.

#2

One more interesting detail about situation in Ukraine befor the Holodomore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainization
Ukrainization (also spelled Ukrainisation or Ukrainianization) is a policy of increasing the usage and facilitating the development of the Ukrainian language and promoting other elements of Ukrainian culture, in various spheres of public life such as education, publishing, government and religion.

The term is used, most prominently, to name the implementation of the Soviet korenization policies of the 1920s, aimed at strengthening Soviet power in the territory of Soviet Ukraine and southern regions of the Russian SFSR. In various forms the Ukrainization policies were also carried in several different periods of the twentieth century history of Ukraine, although with somewhat different goals and in different historical contexts.

Ukrainization is often cited as a response and the means to address the consequences of previous assimilationist policies aimed at suppressing or even eradicating the Ukrainian language and culture from most spheres of public life, most frequently a policy of Russification in the times of the Russian Empire (see also Ems Ukaz) and in the USSR, but also Polonization and Rumanization in some Western Ukrainian regions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainization#1923-1931:_Early_years_of_Soviet_Ukraine
As Bolshevik rule took hold in Ukraine, the early Soviet government had its own reasons to encourage the national movements of the former Russian Empire. While trying to ascertain and consolidate its power, the Bolshevik government was by far more concerned about political oppositions connected to the pre-revolutionary order than about the national movements inside the former empire. Besides, the reversal of the assimilationist policies of the Russian Empire was to help to improve the image of the Soviet government and boost its popularity among the common people.

Until the early-1930s, Ukrainian culture enjoyed a widespread revival due to Bolshevik concessions known as the policy of Korenization (“indigenization”). In these years an impressive Ukrainization program was implemented throughout the republic. In such conditions, the Ukrainian national idea initially continued to develop and even spread to a large territory with traditionally mixed population in the east and south that became part of the Ukrainian Soviet republic.

The All-Ukrainian Sovnarkom’s decree “On implementation of the Ukrainization of the educational and cultural institutions” (July 27, 1923) is considered to be the onset of the Ukrainization program.
The (August 1) decree that followed shortly “On implementation of the equal rights of the languages and facilitation of the Ukrainian language” mandated the implementation of Ukrainian language to all levels of state institutions. Initially, the program was met with resistance by some Ukrainian Communists, largely due to the fact that non-Ukrainians prevailed numerically in the party at the time. The resistance was finally overcome in 1925 through changes in the party leadership under the pressure of Ukrainian representatives in the party. In April 1925 the party Central Committee adopted the resolution on Ukrainization proclaiming its aim as “solidifying the union of the peasantry with the working class” and boosting the overall support of the Soviet system among Ukrainians. A joint resolution aimed at “complete Ukrainization of the Soviet apparatus” as well as the party and trade unions was adopted on April 30, 1925. The Ukrainian Commissariat of Education (Narkomis) was charged with overseeing the implementation of the Ukrainization policies. The two figures, therefore, most identified with the policy are Oleksander Shumskyi, the Commissar for Education between 1923 and 1927, and Mykola Skrypnyk, who replaced Shumskyi in 1927.

The rapidly developed Ukrainian-language based education system dramatically raised the literacy of the Ukrainophone rural population. By 1929 over 97% of high school students in the republic were obtaining their education in Ukrainian[2] and illiteracy dropped from 47% (1926) to 8% in 1934.[3]

Simultaneously, the newly-literate ethnic Ukrainians migrated to the cities, which became rapidly largely Ukrainianized — in both population and education. Between 1923 and 1933 the Ukrainian proportion of the population of Kharkiv, at the time the capital of Soviet Ukraine, increased from 38% to 50%. Similar increases occurred in other cities, from 27.1% to 42.1% in Kiev, from 16% to 48% in Dnipropetrovsk, from 16% to 48% in Odessa, and from 7% to 31% in Luhansk.[3]

Similarly expansive was an increase in Ukrainian language publishing and the overall flourishing of Ukrainian cultural life. As of 1931 out of 88 theatres in Ukraine, 66 were Ukrainian, 12 were Jewish (Yiddish) and 9 were Russian. The number of Ukrainian newspapers, which almost did not exist in 1922, had reached 373 out of 426, while only 3 all-republican large newspapers remained Russian. Of 118 magazines, 89 were Ukrainian. Ukrainization of book-publishing reached 83%.[3]

Most importantly, Ukrainization was thoroughly implemented through the government apparatus, Communist Party of Ukraine membership and, gradually, the party leadership as well, as the recruitment of indigenous cadre was implemented as part of the korenization policies. At the same time, the usage of Ukrainian was continuously encouraged in the workplace and in government affairs. While initially, the party and government apparatus was mostly Russian-speaking, by the end of the 1920s ethnic Ukrainians composed over one half of the membership in the Ukrainian communist party, the number strengthened by accession of Borotbists, a formerly indigenously Ukrainian “independentist” and non-Bolshevik communist party.
…
The attempted Ukrainization of the armed forces, Red Army formations serving in Ukraine and abroad, was less successful although moderate progress was attained. The Schools of Red Commanders (Shkola Chervonyh Starshyn) was organized in Kharkiv to promote the careers of the Ukrainian national cadre in the army (see picture). The Ukrainian newspaper of the Ukrainian Military District “Chervona Armiya” was published until mid-1930s.[4] The efforts were made to introduce and expand Ukrainian terminology and communication in the Ukrainian Red Army units.[1] The policies even reached the army units in which Ukrainians served in other Soviet regions. For instance the Soviet Pacific Fleet included a Ukrainian department overseen by Semyon Rudniev.[5]

At the same time, despite the ongoing Soviet-wide anti-religious campaign, the Ukrainian national Orthodox Church was created, the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church (See History of Christianity in Ukraine). The Bolshevik government initially saw the national churches as a tool in their goal to suppress the Russian Orthodox Church, always viewed with great suspicion by the regime for its being the cornerstone of the defunct Russian Empire and the initially strong opposition it took towards the regime change. Therefore, the government tolerated the new Ukrainian national church for some time and the UAOC gained a wide following among the Ukrainian peasantry.

Ukrainization even reached those regions of southern Russian SFSR, particularly the areas by the Don and Kuban rivers, where mixed population showed strong Ukrainian influences in the local dialect. Ukrainian language teachers, just graduated from expanded institutions of higher education in Soviet Ukraine, were dispatched to these regions to staff newly opened Ukrainian schools or to teach Ukrainian as a second language in Russian schools. A string of local Ukrainian-language publications was started and departments of Ukrainian studies were opened in colleges. Overall, these policies were implemented in thirty-five administrative districts in southern Russia.

So as could you see guys the fu…g Ukrain Communists not ONLY suppressed the Russians and non-ukrainians in Ukrain in 1920-30 but also and try to spread its influence toward the Southern Russia.
At that same time when they suppressed the Russian Ortodoxy chirch in Ukraine ( like the Bolshevics did in all the USSR) the Ukrains COMMI created the Ukrain NAtional Church - is this not funny?
They TOTALLY imposed the Ukraine languages in the areas with the majoirity of Rusian speaking -population.
The one of the resault of the Ukrainisation was the removing the non-ukrainians from the Ukrainian Communist Gov. ALREADY In the 1925 the MOST OF THE UKRAINIAN COMMUNIST gov were the Ethnical Ukrainians who hotly SUPPORTED the policy of Ukrainisation.

#3

The father - the more interesting
http://www.inosmi.ru/text/translation/229577.html
When the collectivisation had bagan in all the USSR the Ukraine Local Gov signed the special order

6 декабря 1932 г. ярый украинизатор, председатель СНК УССР Чубарь подписал постановление “О борьбе с саботажем в хлебозаготовках”. С этого момента начинаются черные страницы истории Украины - страшный голод 30-х годов.
…

On 6 December, 1932, ardent ukrainizator, the chairman OF SNK OF UKRSSR - UKRAINIAN SSR Chubar signed decision “fight with the sabotage”. The black pages of the history of the Ukraine begin from this point on, - the terrible hunger of the 1933

The resault of this order was that was the forbid to send and by the products from the other regions of USSR. For instance when in Crimea the situation after collectivisation was more soft and the peoples still have the rest of the foods/ The Ukrains Local poweres that TOO CAREFULLY realised the comraide Stalin plans of gathering forbig the import the food form the Crimes- thus the peoples in Ukraine occused in much worst conditions then in the other districts of USSR.
Tody the contemporary politica descendant in Ukrain just want to whitewash own Communist Ukrain ancestors and blames the Russians ( who also suffer a lot from Stalin terror) in the “special Holodomor in Ukraine”.
This is not surprising for Nationalists- whom first aim to creat the bariers between the peoples, for its own political ambitions.
The pitfull attempts “to clear” the OWN UKRAINIANS communist murders ( who ruled the CK Comparty of Ukrain and responsible for the unhuman policy and terrible effect of Collectivisation of Ukraine)) is the JUST political demagogy and race-hate.

#4

the discussion actually started at http://www.ww2incolor.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5339&page=2

Posted by Chevan
So you should thank them for the terror that all those colloborations : more exactly all the Head of Local Ukrainin gov , the tens thousands of the memebers of punismentand NKVD, and the MILLIONS memebers of the Ukrain ComParty- thay were all so glad and claps for the comrade Stalin.

Yes the Ukraines ruled ONLY by the Ukrainians , however the generale Line was COMMON for all the USSR and was determined by the Polutburo and ComParty in Head of Comride Stalin ( who was also non-russian marsian).The LOCAL authorities ( that were headed by the Local NATIONAL leaders) executed the General policy in the Republic. They had all power to rules according general line.
The absolutly all Republic was roughly in equal conditions- so you better do not spread the fary tell about the Russians who make the famine for the Ukraine;)

So-called Ukrainian ComParty was just the creature of the Russian communist party. It was fully subject to the Communist Party of Russia. Its role was restricted to conducting some party meetings after the ones of Russian communists and copied all the decisions taken at Russian communist meetings. Ukrainian ComParty was formed in Russia by Russian communists in 1918 to undermine the legitimacy of Ukrainian authorities in Kyiv. Later they were brought to Kharkiv after the city was captured by Bolsheviks. The absolute majority of its members were just statists like the members of the young communist league and pioneers. Are you going to deny that if a person hadn’t been a pioneer or a member of young communist league, he/she would have been prevented from normal studyings at school and never admitted to a university or institute. An adult person who ignored the communist social activities would most likely get imprisoned. So that was the reason why such communist party structures embraced nearly each Ukrainian in the Soviet Union. Everyone wants to live.

Among the victims of holodomor there were millions of such loyal to the Soviets Ukrainians who supported communism. And even this fact proves that it was a genocide not a political purge.

#5

Posted by Chevan The thing that joined the all Soviet republic together was the ComParty and Polutburoo where were the representatives OF ALL THE NATIONAL Republic of the USSR. And the Ukraines played the active part in the Comparty.The absolutelly all republic were presented in the Soviet Power.
Besides in Every republic the National Communists ethnic ruling elite.

Yeah Ukrainians like Kosior, Manuilskij, Kaganovich, Kosior, and Postyshev and Khrushchev. All the senior echalon of party bosses of Ukraine were appointed by Moscow.

To prevent Chevan from claiming that Khrushchev was a Ukrainian.

Nikita Khrushchev was born in the village of Kalinovka, Dmitriyev Uyezd, Kursk Guberniya, Russian Empire, now occupied by the present-day Kursk Oblast in Russia. His father was the peasant Sergei Nikanorovich Khrushchev (d. 1938 of tuberculosis); his mother was Aksinia Ivanovna Khrushcheva. He had a sister two years his junior, Irina. In 1908, his family moved to Yuzovka (now Donetsk, Ukraine). Later, since he spent much time working in Ukraine, Khrushchev gave off the impression of being Ukrainian. He supported this image by wearing Ukrainian national shirts. However, he has personally stated that “I Myself Am Russian”.

#6

So they were the heros , right. They saved the peoples
In cotrast to the Ukrain communist .
I think all rater simple - the Russian local authorities did not make the such “mistakes” like the Ukraine did.
They ruled more professional and they little cared about the peoples.

Yes , quite correct. Russian communists cared about Russian nationals and genocided only civilian Non-Russians: Ukrainians, Mouslems, Balts etc.

#7

My Kuban with majiority of Ukrains???
Man are you sick , when were the Ukrainians the majority in Kuban?
You are definitally have the problems megalomania.
Partly the Kuban cossacs had the Ukrainian roots.However There vere never the Majiority of them in Kuban.Especially in the 1920-1930yy

Really? How did it happen that before communist came to power in Kuban, it was the territoty of Kuban cossacks array and its population was made up of almost 100 % of these descendants of Ukrainian cossacks with official restrictions to live in this land for all other nationals. And 1920-1930yy ceased to be a majority? It is just another example of an successfully accommplished genocide by Russians.

#8

This is a just part of true.
Indeed as we could see the about the 5% of alleged Ukrainians who died in Ukraine in 1931-33 were NOT -Ukrainians. Coz you perfectly know that the Local Ukrain communists hold the policy of Ukrainisation - thus many of the victims were simply written as the Ukrains.

That so-called Ukrainisation took place in the early and mid 1920s. It consisted in abolishing the numerous ban on the Ukrainian language, culture, and literature. Communists simply leagalised what always existed but was illegal in Tsar Russia. There was any other deliberate policy. By the early 1930s this development had become increasingly alarming to the Soviet regime, which saw a danger in the loyalties of increasingly nationally conscious Ukrainians being aligned with the Ukrainian nation rather than with the Communist ideology or the Soviet state.[10] In the early 1930s, Ukrainization policies were abruptly reversed and replaced with a policy of effective Russification thereby causing significant social, cultural, and political conflict in the Ukrainian populated territories.

#9

The famine of 1932-1933 coincided with the assault on Ukrainian national culture. The events of 1932-1933 in Ukraine were seen by the Soviet Communist leaders as an instrument against possible Ukrainian self-determination. At the 12th Congress of the Communist Party of Ukraine, Moscow-appointed leader Postyshev declared that “1933 was the year of the defeat of Ukrainian nationalist counter-revolution.”[48] This “defeat” encompassed not just the physical extermination of a significant portion of the Ukrainian peasantry, but also the virtual elimination of the Ukrainian clergy and the mass imprisonment or execution of Ukrainian intellectuals, writers and artists.
By the end of the 1930s, approximately four-fifths of the Ukrainian cultural elite had been “eliminated”.[49] Some, like Ukrainian writer Mykola Khvylovy, committed suicide. One of the leading Ukrainian Bolsheviks, Mykola Skrypnyk, who was in charge of the decade-long Ukrainization program that had been decisively brought to an end, shot himself in the summer of 1933 at the height of the terrifying purge of the CP(b)U. The Communist Party of Ukraine, under the guidance of state officials like Kaganovich, Kosior, and Postyshev, boasted in early 1934 of the elimination of “counter-revolutionaries, nationalists, spies and class enemies”. Whole academic organizations, such as the Bahaliy Institute of History and Culture, were shut down following the arrests.

#10

Posted by Chevan:

Well tell this for the others Kato, may they will belive in this bulshit.
The Most of VICTIMS OF BOLSHEVICS terror were the Russians, besides the RUSSIANS were the basis of prisoner of GULAG - yo know it. Russians were the first who meet the Big Red terror in 1918-1920.

The strongholds of Bolsheviks during the civil war 1918-1921 was the central regions of modern Russia, the original territory of Russian ethnicity. Since then all the soviet apparatus of pwoer was built on the Russian ethnicity and language Bolsheviks’ terror was aimed against the adepts of the Tzar Russia that is the upper crust of the old society and some officers who resisted Bolsheviks ( it does not mean that these people were ethnical Russians as these people were very much cosmopolitic and often spoke foreign languages better than Russian ) They made up 1-2 per cent of Russian population and wanted to keep their previlages, status, property and money. One should remember that Don and Kuban cossacks claimed seperate ethnicity different from Russian one.
All the civil war was reduced to attempts of the upper crust of the old society and the officers of the Tzar army who formed so called white forces ( with huge military support on behalf Western states) to break through to the central original Russian regions (from Caucases, Baltik, Ukraine, Siberia) and crack down the mutiny. Bolsheviks would have certainly failed to win unless 90% of ethnical Russians had eagerly supported them.

You are forgetting that the GULAG was both for so-called political prisoners and felons.
The biggest proportion of political prisoners in Gulag were Ukrainians. Check with with Solzhenizin.

#11

Wow , you say that the Kuban cossacs was a descendants of the Ukrainian cossacs ( that two centuries ago come to the Kavkaz). They had an ancient Ukrainian roots ( like and all russian had a ancient Kiev Rus ancestors) however they WERE NOT UKRAINIAN. They Were russian and they servad for Tsar to save the bother in Kavkaz.
The Ukrainian root is not the same the to be Ukrainians , i hope yo understand.

#12

Well the bad situation Kato. It seems it exactly megalomania;)
Ukrains were the majoirity in GULAG?
That’t a new discowery of the Ukrainian historians?
Well well i heared in the Ukraine the scientists discowered thet the eople in the Europe comes from the ancient Ukrainians :slight_smile:
Go on comrides. While the Orange drugs is acting…
And do not lie that that the “strongholds of Bolsheviks during the civil war 1918-1921 was the central regions of modern Russia” - YOU PERFECTLY know that the strongholds of Bolshevics WERE the “SOVIETS of WOKERS and Soldier deputats” in the Big cities Like Petersburd, Moscow and Kiev.
The russian peasants form Central Part were in VICTIMS- the bolshevics hated them as the MAIN victim of OLD tsar’s time.
So do not spread a bulshit - the Russain peasants SUFFERED enought hard form the Boslshevics ( including the Ukrainian Bastards ) in the “CENTRAL part of Russia”

#13

Ethnically they were Ukrainians. The traditions and ways of life at that time
made the rate of intermarriages extremely low

#14

Chevan
Well the bad situation Kato. It seems it exactly megalomania;)
Ukrains were the majoirity in GULAG?
That’t a new discowery of the Ukrainian historians?
Well well i heared in the Ukraine the scientists discowered thet the eople in the Europe comes from the ancient Ukrainians :slight_smile:

It is objective data and the Russian historians are the only ones in the world who refuses to accept it.

Go on comrides. While the Orange drugs is acting…

I am glad that you watch your Russian TV the most objective and true TV in the world as well as all the rest of Russian medias.
Personally I prefer the oranges injected with American CIA and Jewish Massad drugs

And do not lie that that the “strongholds of Bolsheviks during the civil war 1918-1921 was the central regions of modern Russia” - YOU PERFECTLY know that the strongholds of Bolshevics WERE the “SOVIETS of WOKERS and Soldier deputats” in the Big cities Like Petersburd, Moscow and Kiev.
The russian peasants form Central Part were in VICTIMS- the bolshevics hated them as the MAIN victim of OLD tsar’s time.
So do not spread a bulshit - the Russain peasants SUFFERED enought hard form the Boslshevics ( including the Ukrainian Bastards ) in the “CENTRAL part of Russia”

The attempt of Bolsheviks mutiny in Kyiv in 1918 that failed to receive support from Russian ones was cracked down by Ukrainian police in a few hours. At that time the Ukrainian government even refused to create some Army following their idiotic democtratic and liberal ideas.

The russian peasants form Central Part of Russia was the backbone of the Red Army at that time.

#15

That’s true, but not full.
The Ukrainian-origin communists clap for the New Policy.
Do not forget that the Russians cultural elite WAS eliminated fully much early in the beginning of 1920.
And also the own Ukrainian Nattionaliss- Communists try hard to eliminate the own peoples [/b]

One of the leading Ukrainian Bolsheviks, Mykola Skrypnyk, who was in charge of the decade-long Ukrainization program that had been decisively brought to an end, shot himself in the summer of 1933 at the height of the terrifying purge of the CP(b)U.

That’s right ,the Ukrainian bolshevic killer chosed the siucide instead to be the shoot by order;)

The Communist Party of Ukraine, under the guidance of state officials like Kaganovich, Kosior, and Postyshev, boasted in early 1934 of the elimination of “counter-revolutionaries, nationalists, spies and class enemies”. Whole academic organizations, such as the Bahaliy Institute of History and Culture, were shut down following the arrests.[/QUOTE]
Absolut true.
The New Moscow Commissin in head of Koganovich has arrived in Kiev RIGHT AFTER THE HOLODOMORE in 1933.

What is strange here? The arrived to judge the reason of the mass famine and shot the guilt Ukrain bastard who sanctioned the Policy that lead to the so great victims.
The OWN Ukrainian local authorities who signed the unhuman orderd toward the OWN population in 1932 - they have to be shot according the Bolshevics rules;)

#16

This is hardly was the way you describe it. It was more or less compalsury for Communist party members to partisipate in the those activities. But not for the rest. In 1940 there were app 4 million party members in USSR. The total population was somewhere about 192 million. That means there were roughly 50 million adult males.
The party membership was not so easy to get (in the 1930) as there were fair deal of prerequisities. And, yes, it gave sertain previligies, but also whould give you a fair bit of responsibility in terms of more work (in the 1930s).

So that was the reason why such communist party structures embraced nearly each Ukrainian in the Soviet Union. Everyone wants to live.

True. Very much so.
But if you want to present USSR’s communist party as some kind of ethnic Russian institution that protected ethnic Russian interests you distort the reality of 1920s - 1930s.

Regards
Igor

#17

:slight_smile: I have no words

I am glad that you watch your Russian TV the most objective and true TV in the world as well as all the rest of Russian medias.

Am i watch the Russian TV?Are you kidding…
Why is it needed? To watch the Putin?I do not like his.
Usially i wathc only the Viva Polska and Myz TV Ru music channels.

Personally I prefer the oranges injected with American CIA and Jewish Massad drugs

Yes …I suspected you a drugg addict;)
Cos the norman healthy man could not to write a so;)

The russian peasants form Central Part of Russia was the backbone of the Red Army at that time.

Its’ wrong again. The Basis of the Red Guard was the former soldiers-traitors of Tsar army and former workers who now was the unemployed coz the plans does not works.
The Later in the 1922-25 when the Red Guard was reformed in the Red Army of worker’s and peasants’ army was took a lot of former peasants.
However in this timme the Ukrain peasants has right to join in Red Army too.

#18

That’s true, but not full.
The Ukrainian-origin communists clap for the New Policy.
Do not forget that the Russians cultural elite WAS eliminated fully much early in the beginning of 1920.
And also the own Ukrainian Nattionaliss- Communists try hard to eliminate the own peoples
That’s right ,the Ukrainian bolshevic killer chosed the siucide instead to be the shoot by order;)

That man Mykola Skrypnyk was in chrage of Ukranisation and had nothing to do with killings So you came to the conclusion the Ukranisation was the killing of Ukrainians?

What is strange here? The arrived to judge the reason of the mass famine and shot the guilt Ukrain bastard who sanctioned the Policy that lead to the so great victims.
The OWN Ukrainian local authorities who signed the unhuman orderd toward the OWN population in 1932 - they have to be shot according the Bolshevics rules;)

Yeah again blatant lies.
Only a few men related to the organization of holodomor were arrested only in 1937, however they were charged with things completely unrelated to holodomor. It was done in accordance to the Sioviet tradition of that time to change people in higher echalons to avoid the formation of some steady groups of senior Bolsheviks that can oppose Stalin.

After the death of Stalin all they were acquitted from all the charges and declared to be the victims of Stalin.

#19

Oh really NOBODY from Ukrainians had nothing to do with the Ukrainian Bolshevic terror in Ukraine?
And who treated and shoted the peoples- ONLY russians Bolshevics?

Yeah again blatant lies.
Some of the organizers of holodomor were arrested only in 1937, however they were charged with things completely unrelated to holodomor. It was done in accordance to the Sioviet tradition of that time to change people in higher echalons to avoid the formation of some steady groups of senior Bolsheviks that can oppose Stalin.

But they WERE judged and executed also and for Holodomor, weren’t they?
At least the Moscow tryed to judge the Local Ukrainians communists who was responsible for the SO enourmous victims of famine ( in other regions there were no a such great victims)
The comission arrived to the Ukrain in the 1933 in head with the Narkov of the Agriculture Koganovich ( when the famine has alredy began).

#20

Yes …I suspected you a drugg addict
Cos the norman healthy man could not to write a so. Usially i wathc only the Viva Polska and Myz TV Ru music channels.

Quote:

You just started mentioning some orange drugs in one of your previous posts. Quit watching them.