(What if...) Rommel moved Panzers to Omaha...

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#1

This is first Alternative History topic:

What would happen if Rommel would be able to move Panzer divisions to Omaha, Juno and Sword beaches not later than 10am, 6-th of June 1944?

Please try to analyse situation and answer like Eisenhower would do it.
This topic is intended as a serious discussion.
Answers like: “Our battleships would blast German tanks to oblivion”, are not real answers nor analyses.

Try to think like military commander - all of us owe to the people which stayed forever in France on numerous cemetaries.
As 6-th of June is approaching, let’s make this discussion our special commemoration of this event and tribute to those which paid ultimate sacrifice.

Don’t be shy and think even about possible movement of German troops late in 1944, about major offensive on the eastern front.
The Battle of the Bulge would not happen and King Tigers could push Soviets back… Do they? Or maybe todays Belgians would speak russian?

Lancer44

#2

What would happen if Rommel would be able to move Panzer divisions to Omaha, Juno and Sword beaches not later than 10am, 6-th of June 1944?

Just how many Panzer Divisions are you talking about?

Regards

#3

i think the allies air force might able to react and kill the tank

because i believe my high school textbook said that bombers sweep the area first before letting soldiers to went ashore

and yeah, how much tanks are avaliable to rommel by then?
100? 50?

#4

The Germans had in France 9 panzer divisions and 46 infantry divisions.
Panzer:
1st SS “Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler”
2nd SS “Das Reich”
9th SS “Hohenstaufen”
10th SS “Frundsberg”
12th SS “Hitlerjugend”
2nd Pz. Div.
21st Pz. Div.
116th Pz. Div.
Panzer Lehr Div.

17th SS Pz. Gren. Div.
Total amount of tanks in these divisions: about 1500.

#5

but i believe the american has send paratroopers behind enemy line to destroy bridge

if i am the american general and finds out that there are more tanks than anticipated. I think the best strategy is to aviod the enemy stronghold and go for to the weak point, thus, to aviod facing the tank one on one, it would be the best to isolate them by sending more paratroopers to the back with anti tank weapon. It would be the best to have the experience pilot to fly the transport plane so that the pilot would not let go the paratroopers too early when they are being attacked by nazi anti-air weapon. The objective of those paratroopers is to destroy the bridge to prevent more reinforcement, and prevent enemy tank from leaving the battlefield.

There is one advantage to it, the tank would kind of stuck there and not able to help out in another area for at least a while, that would give the allies the advantage because supplies for the tanks would not goes forever. Now the tanks can nethier both protect the beach or retreat

hope you understand what i am trying to say, and if you do. I hope its not stupid because i have little knowledge on figting a war:P

#6

  1. There were no more Allied paratroopers ready to be send.
    I’m almost sure that in June 44 only Polish Independent Brigade was left in England - it was not ready for combat and was dropped near Arnhem
    in August 1944.

  2. Sending more paras with anti tank weapons - bazookas or PIATs is not too good idea… almost certain suicide. Panzer Divisions or Panzer Waffen Groups were not only tanks but Panzer grenadiers supported by massive artillery. Lightly armed paras would be crushed by them.

  3. If Rommel could concentrate at least half of his Panzer divisions in the morning of 6-th of June, he would almost certainly push first wave of invasion forces back to the English Channel, than clear areas where paras had been holding some objectives.
    Say, Pegasus bridge held by Brits had only sense when reinforcements would arrive. Even if you would double the number of paras behind the beaches without reinforcements from invasion forces they would not last more than a few days.

Lancer44

#7

I agree that the beaches would have most certainly been lost to the allies if Rommel had it his way. With no reenforcments on the way to help the paratroopers they will be destroyed in no time.

#8

then what do you think the allies should react?

#9

Well of course they would have learned there lesson. Maybe they will just continue with there air assult and work there way up north from Italy. Well the question is do you think D-day would have ever happened if Stalin didn’t say he needed help, and for the allies to open up another front?

#10

but according to history book, german productivity did not go down until like august 1944 when the allies basically has their stronghold in europe.

if the invasion didnt happen, factories would have build more x-4 air to air missiles, ground to air missiles against the air assult

more tanks would have built against the reds

#11

I see your point. I personly think Stalin was doing allright in the war. Yes the casualties were high. But I think he was doing well with his T34/85 and the soon to come IS tanks. Yes Hitler could have built tanks but there no good with out oil. Which he needed desperatly. But the Russains by 1944 had most of their land back and keeped pushing forward. But then again I think the allies were planning a D-day before Stalin asked. They had to end the war quickly and Italy was taking to long. So anyway back to the topic. Maybe the allies after being beat on the beaches would launch another invasion?

#12

that is exactly that i am thinking, it makes no sense at all to make peace with the nazi just beause of one defeat

#13

that is exactly that i am thinking, it makes no sense at all to make peace with the nazi just beause of one defeat[/quote]

They would not make peace with nazis- this is for sure. When Allies would be able to launch another invasion?
If Rommel would push first wave back to the Channel, practically all airborne troops would be lost. It is very difficult to start invasion without them…
British and American commanders would need another six month.
Invasion cannot start at winter. In April 1945 at earliest.
By May or June 1945 all Europe beside Italy would be red in Stalin’s little hands and Allies tied in the bockage country.

Lancer44

#14

that is exactly that i am thinking, it makes no sense at all to make peace with the nazi just beause of one defeat[/quote]

They would not make peace with nazis- this is for sure. When Allies would be able to launch another invasion?
If Rommel would push first wave back to the Channel, practically all airborne troops would be lost. It is very difficult to start invasion without them…
British and American commanders would need another six month.
Invasion cannot start at winter. In April 1945 at earliest.
By May or June 1945 all Europe beside Italy would be red in Stalin’s little hands and Allies tied in the bockage country.

Lancer44[/quote]
if the threat is gone in the west, wouldnt the nazi turn their tanks and troops to the east? Consider many of them are king tiger, which is pretty effective against T-34

#15

do you mind adding “what if series” in your topic, thanks

#16

Hi FW-190 Pilot,

Yes, they would. Certainly they would move panzer divisions to the Eastern front but I don’t think they would be able to stop soviets. By mid 1944 soviets had been producing T-34 in such numbers that equation was 7 to 1 King Tiger.
There is a possibility that Allies would stop Lend Lease deliveries to Stalin. Perhaps Churchill would realise that helping Stalin to take the whole Europe does not make any sense…
There is also possibility that Germans would propose peace with soviets and old border from Ribbentrop - Molotov pact would be established again.
It is all speculation. Personally I think that Stalin would push ahead and stopped on the English Channel coast and Pyrenees. And then with combined industrial power of France and Germany in his hands communism would conquer the world.
I’m not even sure what would happen with Italy…
Communist influence was very strong there.

Cheers,

Lancer44

#17

so we can come to a conclusion that the nazi will lost even they have won the battle of normandy

#18

Germany lost the war before D-day even happened. The date December 7th 1941.

#19

Or sooner: 22nd of June 1941.

#20

Or sooner: 22nd of June 1941.[/quote]

Hmm, using this way of thinking we can say that nazis lost the war by stopping panzers before Dunkirk evacuation. Sea Lion would be possible and Normandy would never happen… or after 10 years…

I think that we have to look how Europe was shaped thanks to successful
D-Day, a lot of dead American, British, Canadian and other nations boys made possible united Europe many years later.
If Omaha Beach would be a disaster, (which it nearly was), some european nations like Dutch, Flamands, Frog-eaters and most probably Spanish too, would now speak Russian and eat borstch. (Stolichnaya is not that bad… :slight_smile: )

Do you understand what we owe to fellows which died on 6-th of June 1944?

Lancer44