WHY JAPAN OPTED FOR WAR

Now that “PACIFIC THEATRE” has been adopted as a seperate catagory in this forum perhaps it might be a good time to go back to the beginning and take a look at when and how this theatre of war came about.

Of course WHEN it came about was December 7, 1941 with the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor – which plunged Japan and the United States into war.

The WHY is a bit more complicated – and might make an interesting thread on the subject of why Japan opted for a war with the more powerful United States.

Here’s a start:

In the 1930’s Japan was a small industrial-based island nation with few natural resources and limited agricultural capacity. She was dependant on foreign nations for almost all of her critical necessities both domestic and military. The United States was Japan’s principal source of supplies – scrap iron and steel from the U.S. were the basic raw materials needed to make Japanese steel. Copper and other non-ferrous metals were also imported from the U.S. Especially critical to Japan were oil imports from the U.S. for aviation gasoline. diesel fuel and other petrolium products to keep her military machine functioning. The U.S. was also a major supplier of agricultural products.

Japan’s driving ambition was to become a great power in the world community. One mark (in the 1930’s) of great power status was the possession of colonies. Another was self-sufficiency. Therefore, Japan embarked on a course of action that would achieve both goals at the same time – by conquest and/or control of new colonies – and the materials, supplies and military advantages they offered. This singular military course of action was deceptively cloaked under the organizational title : “The Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere”.

Early on Japan seized Formosa and Korea.
In 1931 Japan seized Manchuria.
In 1937 Japan undertook a large scale invasion of China proper.
In September of 1940 Japan signed the Tripartite Pact with Germany and Italy. Because this pact was primarily directed against the United States and designed to keep the U.S. neutral in any future war, it immediately put the U.S. and Japan on a collision course. The Tripartite Pact also helped Japan facilitate opportunities that could provide them the colonial asperations they desired. Germany’s earlier conquest of France and the Netherlands had left the colonial possessions of those two countries – French Indochina and the Dutch East Indies – unprotected.

At Japan’s request Germany put pressure on the French Vichy government to grant Japan military bases in French Indochina.

Germany also put pressure on the Netherlands to grant Japan access to the vast sources of oil, nickle, tin, boxite, crude rubber, corn, sugar and other agricultural products available in the Dutch East Indies. A fringe benefit of Japan’s control over the East Indies was the serious affect that it would have on the U.S. when their own imports of critical rubber from the area were cut off.

The U.S. countered Japan’s signing the Tripartite Pact by placing an embargo on the export of American oil, scrap iron and steel, and other strategic materials to Japan.

In July 1941 Japan occupied Indochina, claiming her desperate need for raw materials as justification.

The United States countered by freezing all Japanese funds and assets in the U.S. – effectively halting all trade between the two countries.

The seriousness of the U.S. embargo and the freezing assets prompted Japan to attempt negotiations for a mutual and peaceful working agreement between the two countries – at the same time protecting Japanese Asian military conquests.

Before entering into talks on an agreement the United States demanded a complete withdrawal of Japanese troops from China and Indochina and the abandonment of all territorial rights in both areas.

The demand was entirely unacceptable to the Japanese government. To give up China and Indochina would prevent Japan from acheiving her main goal of becoming a world power. Japan reasoned that a war with the U.S. in the Pacific theatre of war would be basically a naval conflict and that Japan – with one of the mightiest and best trained navies in the world – would be superior to the United States in the Pacific. However, a war with the U.S. would require the initial destruction of the United States Navy (at Pearl Harbor) followed by a massive build-up of Japanese military strength in the entire Pacific area.

Germany had already conquored France and Eastern Europe, and had invaded Russia, and was on the verge of invading Great Britain. Japan had already started building up troops in China for a possible movement against Russia in compliance with Germany’s wishes. Japan reasoned that if the U.S. entered the war Germany would keep her involved in the European theatre while Japan attacked Russis from the east in a pincers movement with Germany. The U.S. would be forced to sue for peace – on Japan’s terms.

But the loss of Japan’s position in China, Indochina and Asia proper would reduce her to a third rate power, economic stagnation and increased dependence on foreign powers. Japan considered the United States’ demands an ultimatum from which there was no deviation. The only option left to the Japanese Government was to go to war with the United States.

At 6 p.m. on November 26, 1941 a large Japanese task force sailed from Hitokappu Bay in the Kurile Islands under sealed orders. The sealed orders contained intructions for a surprise attack on Pearl Harbor.

And so, the Pacific Theatre of War was born.

Wadaya think??? Did I get most of all that right?? Comments, additions, corrections welcome!!!

well, base on what i watch from the BBC video
They said that japanese are humiliated that the treaty in the 20s has forced japan to downgrade its navy power. The US has decrease Japan’s war capability without having a war, and that upset a lot of admiral in Japan.

Not to mention the serious descrimination in the US against Japanese

Britain and Japan has a great relationship, japan has always seen Britian as a teacher and tries to adopt everything from them. But just because the US has put pressure on the British, the alliance is over. This alliance is always seen by the japanese a ticket to the world power and it is gone just like that.

I agree that the discrimination that the Japanese Americans faced AFTER the war had started was wrong but what does that have to do with the topic Why Japan Opted for war with the US?

I can see that…sounds like some interesting reading, can you quote a source, I would like to read about that?

Japan did look to Britain with the intention to learn all manner of things from them. They also looked to teh Germans and a few other countries also. But from the Brits they wanted things like navel info.

There were one or two advisers in the country.

The descrimaination to Japanese I think was either in reference to things like the freezing of assets and the descrimination faced by non-whites in America at that time.

Edit to add. The concentration camps for people of Japanese ancestory, and in some cases theft of assets, is a particularly dark and shameful chapter for America. Although, you can’t second guess the leaders at the time as they had to take the descisions as the felt best at the time.

this is a brieft summary on what Japanese history after 1912, America has publicly hulimiated Japan and it hurts their relationship
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2129.html

and i am sorry, the one i get the information from is not an eassy, its a video that is over 300MB, the video is made by BBC

Werent the Japanese Americans discriminated against before 1941? Werent they considered the same as Blacks?

I need to read more on the subject but seem to recall that they may just have been. For instance, could they vote etc?

The IJN was based on the RN from the start. The early Japanese navy was trained and mostly built by the UK. Many if not most of the principal warships of the great Tsushima battle were built in UK shipyards. You could say that the IJN adopted the ethos of the RN while the Army was largely trained by the French initially and then the German army, well in the early years at least.

In reality Tom Cruise should have portrayed a French or German Captian in the Last Samurai, but hey, when did Hollywood ever get anything right, damned good movie though.

Armstrong Whitworth ships for the IJN

[quote=“Firefly”]

Werent the Japanese Americans discriminated against before 1941? Werent they considered the same as Blacks?

I need to read more on the subject but seem to recall that they may just have been. For instance, could they vote etc?[/quote]
they are being discriminated before the war, because the japanese are being used as cheap labour and start to steal jobs away from the american

they have to pay the whole fee in theatre, but only get to watch the movie in the upper side.

Swimming pool are cleaned in friday so that the white can swim in saturday and sunday, the european in monday to wednesday, the black from wednesday to thursday, and the japanese are only allowed to come in from thursday to friday; just because the employee clean the pool again

Not to mention they have to sit in a special area in a bus

There is a lot of info on that page, please cut and paste the part that says that…

So are you saying this is the reason Japan opted for war? Please tell me it aint so…
I dont think there is one nation in the world that can say there is NO discrimination going on inside its borders to this day.

Edited to fix miss quote: This quote came from FW190

they are being discriminated before the war, because the japanese are being used as cheap labour and start to steal jobs away from the american

they have to pay the whole fee in theatre, but only get to watch the movie in the upper side.

discrimination against japanese is not the main reason to world war 2, but it surely hurt the relationship between the US and Japan

Are you saying part of the reason Japan opted for war with America is because Japanese Americans in the United States were being discriminated against?

Are you saying part of the reason Japan opted for war with America is because Japanese Americans in the United States were being discriminated against?[/quote]
Highly plausible :lol:
Nothing to do with other people having things they wanted and them just deciding to take it then? Was the treatment of Japanese in the Soviet Union the reason Zhukov slapped the Japanese silly at Khalkin Gol?

Well, the internment of Japanese was certainly a very shameful part of United States history, as was its racism/classcism in general…

But spare me ‘the Japanese where punishing America for treating the descendents of its citizens badly’ bollocks… It was blind Nationalism and the emergence of Japan as a power that was the biggest factor. Certainly something I would never claim the United States was innocent of around 1900, nor the British Commonwealth while we’re at it…

But to be far, one has to acknowledge that Americans on the whole were offended and disgusted by the Japanese treatment of the Chinese, and of her utter disregard for humanity from the top down. One of the Japanese rationales for the war was the liberation of asian peoples from Western colonial powers. How ironic and beyond hypocritical.

I also think one cannot fail to mention how militaristic the Japanese Imperial Army was in all this. The Navy was far more realistic about their long term prospects of fighting an industrial power like the US, no matter how good they were. And the Japanese Imperial Navy was quite good. How ironic that the service most spoiling for a fight was the most abysmally prepared to wage modern, mechanized warfare.

I have emboldened the part that is FW’s quote and not mine. Please be more carefull with your misquotes in future.

I am not saying that the Japanese went to war with the US and UK because Japanese were treated as second class citizens by the US. I merely asked if the Japanese were discriminated against by the US as a policy.

Sometimes me thinks thou doth protest too much!

There are many and various reasons why Japan went to war with the US and UK. Some of it was Army driven, some of it was Navy driven and yes even some of it was US driven. However, the vast majority of the blame clearly lies with the japanese Government of the time.

[quote=“Firefly”]

I have emboldened the part that is FW’s quote and not mine. Please be more carefull with your misquotes in future.

[/quote][/quote]

Please show where I misquoted you? This is a thread on WHY Japan opted for war.

[quote=“Firefly”]

I have emboldened the part that is FW’s quote and not mine. Please be more carefull with your misquotes in future.

I am not saying that the Japanese went to war with the US and UK because Japanese were treated as second class citizens by the US. I merely asked if the Japanese were discriminated against by the US as a policy.

Sometimes me thinks thou doth protest too much!

There are many and various reasons why Japan went to war with the US and UK. Some of it was Army driven, some of it was Navy driven and yes even some of it was US driven. However, the vast majority of the blame clearly lies with the japanese Government of the time.[/quote]
i misquote something?? :?

I have emboldened the part that is FW’s quote and not mine. Please be more carefull with your misquotes in future.

[/quote][/quote]

Please show where I misquoted you? This is a thread on WHY Japan opted for war.[/quote]

You placed FW’s quote in mine, see your misquote of 7:39 pm 16 March.

I see it now firefly…Im Very Sorry, I didnt do it on purpose, it was an accident. I meant to post apart but must have screwed it up. I will try to edit and fix. :oops:

Just all this silly talk about discrimination is why Japan attacked america got me seeing double. :lol:

No problem mate, I understand.

Regarding discrimination against Japanese prior to 1941:

In 1941 I was a Senior in a large metropolitan area high school located in the eastern part of the country – where the largest percentage of the population was concentrated. During all my years in elementary school and high school there was never one Japanese student in any classes or schools that I attended. There were no Japanese families living in my neighborhood or the surrounding area. In fact, there were few Oriental people at all in evidence anywhere – even the cities. I’m not trying to be funny when I tell you that prior to 1941 the only Chinese you ever came in contact with either worked in a Chinese restaurant or a Chinese laundry. There were even fewer Japanese in evidence.

The first Japanese imigrants settled in the West Coast area. The 1940 census counted only 126,947 in the continental United States. In 1942 110,000 Japanese were interred as a result of evacuation order 9066 – some sources quote that number at 120,000.

Bottom line – I suppose you can safely come to the conclusion that there was no descrimination against Japanese people in the east and the mid-west based simply on the fact that there were few Japanese to discriminate against.

Of course, World War Two changed all that!