WW2 ammunition logistics

Site Issues 2005 Archive Room
#1

Something serious and grounded in fact for a change. Warning - contains lists, but these are relevant to the discussion at hand.

It is pretty clear that logistics can win or lose battles and wars: soldiers without ammunition cannot shoot, tanks without fuel cannot fight.

It has also been the case, post-war, to standardise as much as possible - fuel, ammunition, etc.

So, what was the ammunition logistics situation like during WW2 for land forces? Pretty diabolical, if you ask me. Here follows the STANDARD calibres used by each of the major participants, not including captured wpns / borrowed /obsolete wpns, and not differentiating between projectile types unless it causes a functionality issue:

USA:

.30M2 in 5rd stripper clips (Springfield)
.30M2 in 8rd en-bloc clips (Garand)
.30M2 in canvas belt (M1917, M1919A4)
.30M2 in link (M1919A6)
.45ACP (M1911, Thompson)
.30 Carbine (M1 carbine)
.50BMG

UK:

.303 MkVII in 5rd stripper clips (rifles, BREN)
.303 MkVIII in canvas belt (Vickers)
.45ACP (Thompson, some S&W M1917 revolvers [+ moon clips], de Lisle)
.455 Webley (Revolver No.1 & other S&W revolvers)
.455 Webley & Scott (W&S automatic pistol - mostly for the navy)
.380-200 (No.2 revolver + others)
9mm Para (STEN, Lanchester etc)
7.92mm Mauser (BESA machine gun [tanks])
.30M2 belt (M1919 machine gun [tanks])
.55 Boys Anti-Tank

Germany:

7.92mm in 5rd stripper clips (Mauser, G43 etc)
7.92mm in belts (MG34, MG42)
7.92mm Kurz (MP43-Stg44, Stg45)
9mm Para (majority of pistols, e.g. P08, P38, SMGs)
9mm Kurz [.380ACP] (some pistols e.g. PP, PPK)
7.65 Browning [.32ACP] (some pistols, e.g. PP, PPK)
6.35mm [.25ACP], 7.65 Parabellum [.30 Luger], 7.63 Mauser (other pistols)

Russkies:

7.62x54R in 5rd strippers (Mosin-Nagant, SVT, AVS, DP)
7.62x54R in belts (Maxim)
7.62x25 Tokarev (SMGs, TT pistol)
7.62mm Nagant Revolver
12.7X108 Belt (DShk38)

Use of captured wpns was quite commonplace for the Germans (there are plenty of piccies of Germans with Tokarev SVT40s, & various other types) and for the Russians, which must have been a total nightmare for them.

But is it any better now? For comparison, this is what Britfor is using at the moment:

5.56mm L2 in strippers/boxed (SA-80)
5.56mm L15 (IIRC) belts (minimi - different propellent to the boxed stuff, btw)
7.62mm Sniper
7.62mm belts (GPMG)
.50BMG belts (M2)
.50BMG loose (anti-materiel rifles)
.338 Lapua Magnum (limited issue sniper rifles)
9mm Para (pistols)
& the Spams appear to be on something similar,

& what we were using 1982 time:

7.62mm boxed (SLR, LMG)
7.62mm sniper
7.62mm belted (GPMG)
.50BMG belted (M2)
9mm Para (Pistol, SMG)
5.56mm M193 (Armalites for “special purposes”)

NB - the lists may not be totally complete!

It appears that we managed to reduce the diversity of ammunition, & then to diversify it a bit more again later. But as far as WW2 is concerned, and ignoring captures and obsoletes, the Russkies had their ammo diversity pretty well sorted. But then they did have units armed with all sorts of crap, such as 8mm Lebels, 10.67mm Berdan II rifles (black powder single-shots, FFS!) which must have added to the headache.

#2

Stoatman,

.303 came also as loose rounds in cardboard boxes (IIRC 50 rounds each, inside a standard wooden ammo box, as used for the bandoliers and Vickers belts, to load Bren magazines with.
Then there still existed .303 Ballistite rounds to be used with a cup grenade discharger for the SMLE.

Jan

#3

Stoat

A story to ilistrate your post.

A mate was CQMS In Belfast one or two years after the introduction of the SA80. He was doing his monthly ammo check of his op ammo, about 100,000 rds and found that he was short, by a couple of thousand. Career gone pension gone life gone oh shit. There followed a number of recounts of the outlying station and troops ammo by the CQMS himself. Eventually he came to the decision that he had to tell the QM and face the music and court martial. The QM took it calmly and was convinced it must be an accounting error. The BN had an ammo check done by the each CQMS. This took about a week.

The bulk of the coy reserve ammo was in tins in the ammo store. In each tin of 5.56 are 800 rds in cardboard boxes. All sealed. At this point the QM himself started to count each tin. He looked at the tin and realised that it was not in 20 boxes 800 rds tins, it was operational ammo in bandoleers of 150 rds, 6 to a tin = 900 rds. Ammo found, red face, a number of bottles of port to the mess. But up to that point we had only seen ammo in 20 box in 800 rd tins. You count ht etin not how much is in the tin.

#4

is it true that the sa80 is an excellent match rifle but has terrible reliability?

#5

Off-topic, but yes, it’s pretty accurate (the issued L2 ammunition’s not much cop though - I had some through a Steyr Scout & it split groups hideously, just like it does in an SA-80), and fine to shoot prone, but the balance is all wrong & it can’t be fired from the left shoulder. The SUSAT’s good (but a 1960s style design), but the mount is PANTS and goes out of zero if you drop the rifle.