Adolf Hitler, pros and cons

Wow, you’ve looked up Wikipedia and read the definition. Congratulations.

Hence my comment about rearmament causing problems for the German economy. The money spent on rearmament was money taken from somewhere else - either through taxation (removing it from the private sector), borrowing (requiring repayment with interest in future) or printing money (devaluing the existing money supply and increasing the likelihood of inflation). All three cause problems for the economy, particularly the former.

This is where it becomes evident that you really don’t know anything about economics. Ever heard of the multiplier effect? See http://www.cnmi-guide.com/info/essays/economics/33.html for a good introduction. The problem with military spending is that you are taking resources away from something that could be used in future to make more money (e.g. retooling a factory) and spending it on something that will make a loud bang and in the process destroy the accumulated wealth. The German rearmament was largely funded with deficit spending, thus it gave a short term boost to the economy as predicted by Keynes. However, because what they spent the money on by and large was unproductive (military equipment, etc.) after a while they ran out of money to borrow and, having not improved the productivity of the economy in the process, had no real chance of getting more. Hence the decision to steal it before the German economy imploded.

Nope. Not only does this violate the laws of Economics, this violates the laws of physics. You are suggesting that a discrete unit - the German economy - can perpetually output weapons for a smaller input than output. That’s exactly akin to a perpetual motion machine - and suffers the same problem. Military production takes money out of the economy and diverts it to non-productive purposes. In most cases, there is sufficient money in the economy that this comes across as a small reduction in growth. However, when this value gets large then the economy simply can’t take it. For the financial year 1938-39, government spending in Germany was 33.5% of GDP, of which 46% went on rearmament. In other words, every year 15% of the value of the economy was being taken out of it and pretty much buried in a hole in the ground. During a phenomenal boom, perhaps, an economy could support this for a while on a peacetime footing. The Soviet Union managed to sustain this for some time by essentially operating on a wartime footing. The way the German economy was structured, it couldn’t. The Nazis didn’t even pretend to fund this in the long term - from about 1933 onwards government spending exceeded income by about 50%. If you think that’s a sustainable way to run an economy, I suggest you spend 50% more than your income and see how far that gets you

They could. Alternatively, they could sell something else and do the same. Exports are pretty much irrelevant here - you’ve got to export something to pay for your imports, and if you’re only making military equipment then that’s what you’ve got to export. Since German military equipment wasn’t (at the time) all that highly regarded, then they will have got a lower price than they would have if they had concentrated on those products which were and still are highly regarded - machine tools, ball bearings and the like.

Nice idea. Shame it’s total bollocks. From 1929-38, German productivity (i.e. the economic value of each hour worked - this is the foundation of all true economic growth as opposed to Keynesian stimulus) grew by about 1.3% per year. Britain grew at about twice this rate. This is further evidence that your claim above is untrue, and in fact the German economy was being fuelled by deficit spending in this period.

China has achieved it’s growth by adopting the economic freedoms of the West without their political freedoms. Other countries have done the same in the past (notably South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and Chile). This works - for a while - but there are two problems with it.

  1. When the economic growth stops, the people hold the government fully responsible and are frequently quite violent about it.
  2. Economic freedom brings the wish for political freedom. Revolutions aren’t led by those with nothing, but those who have something and want more.
    That being said, I think the Chinese government are planning to gradually introduce political freedoms to their country from the bottom up. The long Confucian history of China also helps here - expectations are different from those with a Graeco-Roman heritage.

[QUOTE=Rising Sun*;178124]
Do you know that Hitler liked lying under a glass table to look closely at a woman shitting, but for the glass, into his mouth?

If this is a joke you should use any of this :slight_smile: :smiley: :wink: :mrgreen: otherwise mention a credible source.

Would you please mention a source to endorse this statement.

How convenient the timing of you to showing up horst,Valhalla must be a small place.

Here is one citation, there are reams of them on the net, so peruse them as you might wish.
The Royal College Of Psychiatrists Annual Meeting
Edinburgh International Conference Centre
19-22 June 2007

From memory, it’s in here http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Adolf-Hitler-Secret-Wartime/dp/0465046207

EDIT: BTW, it was his niece, Geli Raubal who had to squat over his face and shit for his pleasure. And some people say there was nothing wrong with Hitler!

Firtsly, for the love of God, please respond to individual posters individually, or at least list the user name as appropriate. That’s only only considerate to those you’re debating with…

I don’t know of any war-crimes related to Wittman, he probably didn’t commit any and seemed for the most part to have been an honorable fellow from what I’ve read. But, I’m not sure what you mean when you say “(he) was what the Allies wanted to be by simply couldn’t?” What was he? There are several, including German historians that criticize his command as essentially irresponsible and short-sighted. That is, he has some tactical successes, but those successes were undermined by his “lone wolf” actions that were essentially strategically and operationally irrelevant at best, and possibly undermined a cohesive defense of his sector…

Secondly, Wittman’s Panzer Mark VI was shot to pieces along with between two and four other Tigers by Canadian and British tankers essentially sucking him into an ambush. And five Tiger tanks may not seem like all that much, but considering there were only around 90 in Normandy at the time, it was actually a major blow…

That is simply not true as data on employment and GDP tells you

By all means, post it! Germany was still one of the top industrialized countries in Europe once they sorted out all of the post war chaos. The employment and GDP figures are largely dependent on the world economy and not which regime was in power at whatever time…

you mean like US only with higher debt to be paid. Had it not been for Hitler US would be in recession looong time.

Um, WTF are you talking about here? Please be specific?

Right :confused:

Indeed…

Before Hitler there was disaster and that’s why he won elections in 1933.

Before Hitler, there was a worldwide depression exacerbated in Germany by Versailles. And he DIDN’T win the elections of 1932, Hindenburg did (by a landslide). Hitler was APPOINTED as chancellor…

While this is true can you think of anyone better than Himmler for sick job he had ?

Probably Reinhard Heydrich. He was a sick ****, and without all of the occultism crap…

No he isn’t. 38000 planes in 1944 against 3 times less in 1941 ?

You do realize that without the planning of 1941, there aren’t 38K planes in 1944, right?

Correct his intuition was valid until … 1942.

No. Actually, I pointed out–and you ignored–that his intuition was sort of shitty in 1939 as he wanted to attack France (predictably) through Belgium. Hitler’s “intuition” was only effective if balanced by a Greek chorus of dissenting Heer officers goading him to a patient, balanced decision. Fall Gelb was the last time that this was achieved, the last time a agreement was forged out under duress of conservative and progressive German generals. Operation Barbarossa would be the exact opposite. A Nazi regime imposing its ideological rantings onto the backs of pragmatists, and crushing their realism with fantasy. Something you’ve quite echoed here actually…

maybe to divisional commander at best ?

Why? He made his reputation in France leading the “Ghost division.” He also was notable for his actions in Italy in WWI…

And how do you reckon he "almost defeated the Soviets?" Most sensible people with an IQ above 40 tend to see the "Rotten structure" statement as the height of hubris and folly.

Had it not been for USA and LL Soviets would have ultimately been defeated or at least in steal mate. Not only did USA gave USSR incredible amount of supplies but also has done incredible damage to Germany.Germans had what 5:1 or 10:1 in kill ratios over Russians. 90 million germans vs. what 200 million Russians.

Um, the Soviets did indeed receive huge amounts of American aid. But the Battles of Moscow and Stalingrad were won with little aid. And kill ratios are pretty easily manipulated like any statistics as “damn lies.” Speaking of which, I suspect that your population figures are way off.

she followed him through good and bad and had to be rewarded

So she was a birdbrained sheep that followed an impotent, homicidal maniac mainly for prestige? Let us sing her praises!

not so relevant for my statement. he let go his closest partners in order they save themselves while he did not even try. Stalin for example would not do this.

He didn’t really have any choice, after seeing what befell Benito…

Just want to pick up on one of Nickdfresh’s points, he said in response to wittman’s assertion that there were 90 million Germans

suspect that your population figures are way off.

Habeaus corpus

Taken from when I visited the Heeresgeschichtliches museum in Vienna. Excellent museum and one day when I can be bothered I put up all the photos I took of the WW2 section.

About Hitler alleged disease:

[i]That theory supported by ‘ample circumstantial?? evidence though no final proof’, according to a team led by Dr Bassem Habeeb, a psychiatrist at Hollins Park Hospital Warrington, in a paper presented to the Royal College of Psychiatrists’ annual meeting in Edinburgh.

There has been speculation that Hitler had the infection since his personal doctor, Theo Morrell expressed his own suspicion?? in his private diary. But the theory has never been rigorously examined, say the researchers.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/74776.php[/i]

So Hitler’s personal doctor only had suspicions on that matter??

At least a very weak biased argument

I will quote some fragments of Hitler’s Psychological Analysis which is mentioned here:

First it started with this:

The world has come to know Adolph Hitler for his insatiable greed for power, his ruthlessness, cruelty and utter lack-of feeling, his contempt for established institutions and his lack of moral restraints….

Sounds more like a political harangue than a Psychological Analysis
Then some pearls like this one:

“ From what we know about his mother’s excessive cleanliness and tidiness we may assume that she employed rather stringent measures during the toilet training period of her children. This usually results in a residual tension in this area and is regarded by the child as a severe frustration which arouses feelings of hostility. This facilitates an alliance with his infantile aggression which finds an avenue for expression through anal activities and fantasies. These usually center around soiling, humiliation and destruction, and form the basis of a sadistic character.”

So cleanliness and tidiness of his mother caused such a perversion… we are all good candidates to suffer from a sadistic character then. What a brilliant conclusion!
The “analysis”, as an example of Hitler’s fixation with anal activities and fantasies quotes Hitler saying:

“Charity is sometimes actually comparable to the manure which is spread on the field, not out of love for the latter, but out of precaution for one’s own benefit later on.”

Hell of an evidence!!
Finally we got to the point, Gelly is quoted writing or saying to the holly spirit maybe because there is no sources, no witnesses at all the following:

. In her description of sexual experiences with Hitler, Geli stressed the fact that it was of the utmost importance to him that she squat over him in such a way that he could see everything.

I don’t know if this Walter C. Langer suffered of coprofhilia himself, or maybe was paid to put his knowledge to make up the most disgusting and perverted theories I’ve ever read about Hitler or if he was plainly retarded but I’m sure it is not worthy of being cited as a credible source in a respectable forum as this one.

An encounter with a Jewish prostitute in Vienna in 1908 may have given Hitler neuro-syphilis and provided the ‘deadly logic and blueprint for the Holocaust’ as well as giving him a reason to attempt to eliminate the mentally retarded, according to evidence presented at the Royal College of Psychiatrists.

That theory supported by ‘ample circumstantial evidence though no final proof’, according to a team led by Dr Bassem Habeeb, a psychiatrist at Hollins Park Hospital Warrington, in a paper presented to the Royal College of Psychiatrists’ annual meeting in Edinburgh.

There has been speculation that Hitler had the infection since his personal doctor, Theo Morrell expressed his own suspicion in his private diary. But the theory has never been rigorously examined, say the researchers.

'But if Hitler’s life is looked at through the lens of a syphilis diagnosis, one clue leads to another until a pattern of infection and progressive infection emerges, a disease that may have defined him from youth as an outsider and that progressively ravaged his body and mind.

Hitler put syphilis high on his political agenda, devoting 13 pages to the disease in Mein Kampf. The job of ‘combating syphilis… the Jewish disease… should be the task of the entire German nation,’ he wrote. ‘The health of the nation will be regained only by eliminating the Jews’.

According to Dr Theophanous, Hitler’s bizarre belief that syphilis was a hereditary disease that was originated and propagated by the Jews and resulted in insanity and mental retardation’ could be the reason he attempted to eliminate the mentally retarded.

His doctor, Theo Morrell noted his Parkinson’s disease, severe gastric crises, skin lesions and violent mood swings as evidence that he had contracted syphilis - as well as 'sudden criminal behaviour, paranoia, grandiosity and mania, all of which changes show in cases of neuro-syphilis.

The Royal College Of Psychiatrists Annual Meeting
Edinburgh International Conference Centre
19-22 June 2007
www.rcpsych.ac.uk

I had said “according to more recent information postulated by historical tv shows” which makes my citation accurate.And thats about all the Citation the subject deserves, if you must have more, do visit the net, there is plenty to look at. Does it trouble you Herr Horst, that the object of your shining fascination could be a syphilitic coprophiliac ?

Bear in mind that Langer was the lead author for the work of a team. I suppose you’d write that off as evidence of a conspiracy, as you probably will an independent study which came to the same conclusions about Hitler being unable to engage in normal heterosexual relations, preferring instead to lie under a cascade of lady poo to get his jollies. http://library.lawschool.cornell.edu/WhatWeHave/SpecialCollections/Donovan/Hitler/upload/Vol_XC_Sec_1.pdf pp.18-19

Remember also that Langer and Murray didn’t ‘make up the most disgusting and perverted theories’ you’ve ever read about Hitler but that their analyses were based on all the information available from a range of sources, and that the Geli Raubal affair occurred long before Hitler was able to control the flow of information in Germany.

I don’t see why you’re so upset about Hitler’s sexual inadequacy, coprophagia and masochism. They’re almost commendable characteristics compared with most of the rest of what he did.

A bit of being shat upon in private by a female relative for personal sexual gratification isn’t inherently evil or even bad, just sick. If he’d confined himself to being shat on by lady friends rather than trying to shit on the rest of the world, the world could have avoided all the deaths, destruction and suffering he caused.

Something that seems to have been ignored in the studies is the part his funny little moustache played in his coprophagia. Maybe it operated as a catcher. Or it could have been a flavour saver.

Something else that has been ignored in the studies is the glaringly obvious relationship between Hitler’s love of shit and the choice of brown for the brownshits. Sorry, brownshirts. He must have got off big time at the rallies with a sea of adoring, obedient people covered in shit-coloured clothes, which was clearly a metaphor for Hitler’s yearning to be covered in lady shit.

Hitler also had an unhealthy obsession with his own shit (of the faeces variety, not his shithouse conduct towards other people), which is reflected in this rare archival footage. http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f6e58ff7ce/hitler-loses-his-mind-over-poop-the-world-iphone-app

I’m wondering if Hitler was the inspiration for the phrase ‘shit eating grin’?

Quote: "I’m wondering if Hitler was the inspiration for the phrase ‘shit eating grin’? "

You be the judge,

smiling_hitler.jpg

:mrgreen:

Not you too :shock:

Just two things:

  • the problem for Germany is Versailles treaty and first years after WWI, with founds needed for reconstruction, Hitler ignores the first problem and take profit for economic strategy of Weimar republic;
  • Hitler makes some moves, like kill people with serious illness and steal Jewish properties, that dope the Germany economy;

Rommel, one of the best tactician, was put in forced medical retirement because he said the true, African theater was doomed by mistake of Hitler.
Adolf Galland, one of best Luftwaffe General, was put in forced retirement because he said the true, Reich air defense are doomed by mistake of Hitler and Goering.

In any case, sure, Hitler makes at the beginning of war some right choices again all odds. For example when he orders to attack Poland he knows that if France attacks German are doomed.
Anyways Hitler lives in his court of of lackes and pages. If someone try to say something, this person will be relieved from his duty, regardless if he has absolutely right or he is necessary for war.
Some of the most brilliant weapon of WWII, like Stg. 44, must be developed in secret from Hitler, because he is ignorant, doesn’t know modern weapons and doesn’t understand it. He like huge toys because they are huge, for example the waste of resources Mouse tank, or get a good weapon and transform it in waste of money, like Me-262 fighter used as Jabo.

He sure have good qualities, there is no questions about it. You cannot create a nation of fanatics without great qualities of civil leader. At the start of war he makes the right choices. But every choice he made is a a gamble with the future of his entire country. Sure the duty of a nation leader is exactly this, take choice for his nation. But when the war created by himself turns on bad, he wasn’t able to sustain his duty of military chief while he doesn’t want to admit it and punish everyone that try to say it. In 1944 a lot of high officials know that war is lost without hopes. Hitler cannot not know this true. But he is crazy. He prefers to destroy his “beloved” Germany instead to admit that his dream of 1000 years reich was ruined by Allies bombs, like the German cities that he wasn’t able to protect.

Hello all. I have originally had no plans of registering to post, I prefer to simply read what everybody has to share, but I could not help but make my own thoughts clear, as they have yet to be pointed out. I observe here Wittman111 having sparked a albeit controversial topic, but it was not his post that has repulsed me. Rather, it is the great pool of hypocrisy. I see moderators speaking of banning Wittman111 simply for pointing out pros and cons of a certain notoriously evil man? Is this not Nazi-like behavior in itself? What happened to free speech and expression of ones thoughts? This IS a forum relating to all relevant study of WW2, is it not? From what I have read here, atleast 80% of what Wittman111 has said, is true. The other 20%, I do not know… I am obviously not one of these “Nazi-fanboys”, yet my rebuttal will probably be met with contempt and ignorance, as I have witnessed a great deal of that here. Wittman111, I stand behind you and confide in your speech, you are NOT in the wrong here. Good day to you all.

Quote:"I am obviously not one of these “Nazi-fanboys”, yet my rebuttal will probably be met with contempt and ignorance, "

No contempt or ignorance for you space shovel, I think you already have more than you can use. But since you’re a spammer, you do get banned, although we may leave your post up for our member’s amusement.

No. It’s maintaining forum standards, including denying crypto-Nazis access to the forum when they post pro-Nazi or pro-Hitler or anti-Semitic drivel under the smokescreen of legitimate historical discussion.

See above.

Not from the mods, as in this thread the ignorance emanates from wittman111 and horst.

Someone’s been a very bad boy, SpadeofDouche:

http://www.google.com/search?q=64.255.180.85&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&client=firefox-a&rlz=1R1MOZA_en___US401

http://www.stopforumspam.com/ipcheck/64.255.180.85