Cuts wrote:
nor did they get any less dead when shot.
BDL wrote:
Or any less scared when they were being shot at…
But they would get banged up for murder or manslaughter, if they killed innocent people or were proven to have not followed the rules of engagement.
Mistakes happens every day… :arrow:
Mistakes do happen every day, but most of these mistakes don’t leave widows and orphans.
‘Mistakes’ where someone dies are a lot easier to see on a BOI than out on the streets when rounds are cracking and brickwork is crumbling near you.
ROE are there to ensure the safety of bystanders and that sldrs do not get prosecuted.
Unfortunately in many theatres where assistance to the police is the major mission, this means that the sldrs must take incoming before they may use their own weapons or they will face prison.
There are many prosecutions, even where the troops have acted within the ROE, due in no small part to the slime that masquerade as gentlemen and call themselves lawyers !
They’ll tell people that they can get a bakkieload of money on a no win, no fee basis.
Whether they win the case or not is immaterial to these bottom-feeders, because they themselves will get publicity.
The more famous, (or in my eyes infamous) they become, the more likely they’ll have other high profile and possibly high paying cases.
These scum win regardless of the outcome of the case and they don’t care of the pain and anguish they cause to those involved.
The direct result of these constant prosecutions does make some sldrs hesitate before opening fire, so we’re left wth the quandry of whose life is worth more in the eyes of the law - the civvies’, the slrds’ … or the terrorists’ ?
There’s no standard in the war. There’s no mercy too.
Every force in the world have its dark side.
“Mistakes” are a benevolent way to say all of that.
:arrow:
Condor mate, you are way wrong mate.
There are standards to be followed, these are referred to as Law of Armed Conflict and/or Rules of Engagement.
These prevent unneccesary suffering to those not involved in the actual fighting.
Anyway this is off topic. Back to moving whilst shooting. It is totally crazy.
No, I don’t say that, everybody with some formation in the
military, knows that.
My refer was: the treats for a more “human” war with innecesary
victims.
Just remember Kosovo, Nam, or other atrocities like Auschwitz, or
Birkenau.
We are civilized, but in this places… :arrow:
In the very first post on this very long BAR gunner thread the writer wondered if BAR gunners were only responsible for surpressing fire during combat – or do they also assult.
I’m just new to this particular forum, but awhile back I posted a part of the following answer on another forum and thought this might be an appropriate spot to expand on that post in answer to the writer’s query. I hope my memory is sharp enough to give you something close to the real “skivvie” on the subject. If I screw up just let me know.
A Marine platoon make-up went something like this. (Remember that in actual combat there was a lot of tactical ad-libbing going on which could be counter to all or some of the following):
Each platoon had three squads.
Each squad had three fire teams.
Each fire team had four men: (1) A team leader with a rifle, (2) A BAR man, (3) An assistant to the BAR man who carried extra ammo and a rifle, (4) A rifleman.
Teams #1 and #2 were called pin down (or pin-up) teams. They pinned the enemy down as the assult teams moved in on the target.
Team #3 was an assult team that moved in on the target by themselves or with a bazooka team, and/or a flamethrower team and/or a demolitions team.
Each platoon also had (A) a bazooka team comprised of a leader, a bazooka man, assistant to the bazooka man (Ammo & rifle), and a rifleman.
(B) A flamethrower team – leader, flamethrower man, assistant to flamethrower man (fuel & rifle), a BAR man.
(C) A demolitions team – Leader and three men with demolition charges(all with rifles)
I think each platoon also had 2 light machine gun teams. Don’t know how many men but I’m sure each carried a rifle.
SO — After all that it comes down to the fact that some BAR men handled surpressing fire and some BAR men were assult men.
Sorry if all this was confusing. I know it confuses the hell out of me. I hope I got it right!!! vcs
No, man, you’re very educational. thanks
It happens every time!!! Some new "know-it-all"guy comes on board and immediatley starts handing out bogus information!
I’ld like to feel exonerated by saying it was a typo – or it was a senior moment – or it was an alzheimer precursor — but the fact is I screwed up !!!
In my last post I wrote: "Each PLATOON also had a bazooka, flamethrower and demolitions team.
This should have read: Each SQUAD also had a bazooka, flamethrower and demolitions team".
I’m doing 35 pushups as you read this. vcs
Hi VCS and a belated welcome to the site, I’m sure your contributions will all be very valuable here.
That said, your post above has just confused me ! 
You said that the platoon had three squads each of twelve men (plus comd elm of course.)
In the first post you mentioned the platoon also having a bazooka team, a flamethrower team and a dems team, each with a four man strength.
This would give a platoon strength of just over fifty men assuming a comd structure of a Lt, Plt Sgt and a rdo opr.
In your latest post this was corrected to each squad having one each of all these teams, ie twenty-four Marines per squad (with specialist teams,) making a plt total of seventy-five men.
I know that in VN (1968) a Marine rifle coy could have anywhere between 60 to 130 men, (including Sp plt, with mortars, 57 mils and SF guns,) and that individual coys may have augmentees for specific ops, but was there an ‘average’ size of USMC coys in the Pacific theatre or did they vary as much as in the VN example ?
Please don’t think I’m being picky, but I’m trying to get an idea of the actual, as opposed to paper, strengths of the USMC plts and coys in WWII.
I really hope I’m not coming across as a doubting Thomas, if so then I apologise in advance, it’s definitely not my intention to do so.
Keep knocking out those pushups - you know they’re good for you !
I would like to add that vcs-ww2 is our new WWII vet. Treat him well:) VCS, if you don’t mind, open another thread in this forum and tell us some of your experiences. Thanks.
Welcome vcs-ww2 to WW2incolor and I hope you will enjoy it.
Henk
Welcome VCS!
I seconded ww2admin!
Yes welcome to the site.
Well vcs-ww2 since you read most of this convoluted post, did you ever fire your weapon whilst moving as we did in Vietnam? Even though we did it then sometimes I’m told by folks here that it never happened!
Welcome, vet, is great to have aboard!!!
Twitch wrote:
Well vcs-ww2 since you read most of this convoluted post, did you ever fire your weapon whilst moving as we did in Vietnam? Even though we did it then sometimes I’m told by folks here that it never happened!
Er, no, Twitch you haven’t been. You have been told that it is a unsound tactic, likely to endanger life on your own side. You have not been told that it has never happened.
Although, YOU have decided that a war in which this tactic was used renders all modern soldiers as peace time soldier boys or what ever it was you called us.
No, you are told by folks here it is not taught in any training! There is a difference. Your statement is wrong.
As most of his posts are…
wrong or complete drivel.
Or some sort of whining “don’t tell me I am wrong when I am happy with my thoughts” post.
Because your thoughts, opionions and observations are obviously correct regardless.